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Author Topic: needing help  (Read 3742 times)

dustin Bradley

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needing help
« on: June 26, 2011, 06:58:39 pm »

We're looking to replace the existing PA.  We would like something scaleable, feeding audiences of 200 to 5,000.  We would also like something ground-stackable, able to run on minimum power (if possible), easy to set-up/teardown, powered or unpowered, and preferably budget-friendly.

I know this is probably in the searches, but I don't know how to search for this.  We're looking to do something very soon.

Please give some ideas to look at.  A JBL SRX rig of 4 tops, 4 sides, processing, and amps is about $22,000 new.  We're looking for something along those lines, etc..

Thoughts please:
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Re: needing help
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2011, 07:01:19 pm »

We're looking to replace the existing PA.  We would like something scaleable, feeding audiences of 200 to 5,000.  We would also like something ground-stackable, able to run on minimum power (if possible), easy to set-up/teardown, powered or unpowered, and preferably budget-friendly.

I know this is probably in the searches, but I don't know how to search for this.  We're looking to do something very soon.

Please give some ideas to look at.  A JBL SRX rig of 4 tops, 4 sides, processing, and amps is about $22,000 new.  We're looking for something along those lines, etc..

Thoughts please:

Dynacord Cobra.
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dustin Bradley

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Re: needing help
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2011, 07:03:31 pm »

We're currently using the Cobra system.  It's okay for indoor shows and smaller gigs outside, but it's not enough for the larger outdoor gigs.    :-(
(this system may be for sale very soon)
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Re: needing help
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2011, 07:10:43 pm »

We're currently using the Cobra system.  It's okay for indoor shows and smaller gigs outside, but it's not enough for the larger outdoor gigs.    :-(
(this system may be for sale very soon)

It's scalable a la your requirements and can add more cabinets more easily than trap cabs.  I'd say just add more.  That's a big leap between 500 and 2000, but I've done much more than 2K folks with a Cobra 3 rig.  I wouldn't look a lot farther than expanding on what you have.  It's a great sounding system and is very compact and quick to set up as you know.
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dustin Bradley

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Re: needing help
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2011, 07:17:52 pm »

we have an older cobra-2 system... I really want something different. :-\
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Jordan Wolf

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Re: needing help
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2011, 07:43:57 pm »

I really want something different. :-\
Okay, but why? Is your current system not performing to your expectations?  If so, HOW is it lacking? 

Does your rig require a proprietary black box from the manufacturer?  If so, and you don't have it, that could be a part of the problem.

Do you keep "running out of gas" or blowing drivers?

We need specifics before we can make more recommendations.  It would be nice to work within your current means rahter than outside of them, wouldn't it?
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dustin Bradley

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Re: needing help
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2011, 07:49:08 pm »

yes, the system runs out of gas quickly on outside gigs.  It seems to be fine for the first 75', then it's just downhill from there.  We have the Dynacord speaker management and EV amps.  The lows especially are lacking.

I would prefer the same system for small and larger gigs, but scaleable (small gigs: leave some of the PA on the truck).
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Re: needing help
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2011, 07:54:16 pm »

yes, the system runs out of gas quickly on outside gigs.  It seems to be fine for the first 75', then it's just downhill from there.

Something's wrong here.  The Cobra 2 is rated to be 6dB down @ 50 meters IIRC and that's always seemed to be achievable.  If you need more LF they have some "longer throw" subs in the Cobra family.

Again, something seems wrong.  Could be the equipment, could be the expectations.  Hard to tell.  But I've always thought it to be one of the most scalable systems out there for the money.  YMMV and apparently does.
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dustin Bradley

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Re: needing help
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2011, 07:57:24 pm »

it could be my expectations.  maybe double the pa per side?  idk.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: needing help
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2011, 11:33:48 pm »

it could be my expectations.  maybe double the pa per side?  idk.

I never got to audition a Cobra rig, but my guess is you need a bigger venomous reptile.

Part of the reason you find the LF lacking at distance is likely the result of a "short line" or "dash" deployment.  If you're shy on subbage, you either need more of what you have, or move up to bigger-boy subs and figure out your own sub to LF processing.

From a business standpoint, how often do you need to go over 2000 pax?  At what SPL? What types of program material do you need to reproduce?  What is the coverage geometry of the venues you currently work?  There are lots of factors, and if you have to be able to do everything for everyone, you will need 2 systems, minimum and keep them both busy for at least 3 years.

If your current clients are happy with your PA, don't make a lateral move just to please yourself.  The PA is a business tool, not a big personal stereo.

Have fun, good luck.

Tim Mc
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Matt Martin

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Re: needing help
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2011, 11:55:59 pm »

I've swapped all of my gear to JTR speakers. I use the 12x tops and orbit shifter subs. For us, they are very scalable system.
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Rob Spence

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Re: needing help
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2011, 04:07:12 pm »

We're looking to replace the existing PA.  We would like something scaleable, feeding audiences of 200 to 5,000.  We would also like something ground-stackable, able to run on minimum power (if possible), easy to set-up/teardown, powered or unpowered, and preferably budget-friendly.

I know this is probably in the searches, but I don't know how to search for this.  We're looking to do something very soon.

Please give some ideas to look at.  A JBL SRX rig of 4 tops, 4 sides, processing, and amps is about $22,000 new.  We're looking for something along those lines, etc..

Thoughts please:

The SRX rig isn't scalable to 5k punters outside (unless only a few hundred want to hear it loud) and doesn't run on minimal power.
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dustin Bradley

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Re: needing help
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2011, 04:11:51 pm »

reality check:  audiences up to 3,000.  The SRX rig will require 4 dedicated 20A circuits, which is do-able; I just didn't want a system that would require a bunch of circuits to work.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: needing help
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2011, 05:15:42 pm »

reality check:  audiences up to 3,000.  The SRX rig will require 4 dedicated 20A circuits, which is do-able; I just didn't want a system that would require a bunch of circuits to work.

Every system runs on a bunch of circuits... after the "really big switch".

The SRX rig will not do 3,000 outdoors, at least not for the kind of acts we frequently work with, or because of the venue geometry.  I'm trying to figure out if or how much different your situation is.

How about reviewing my other questions?
« Last Edit: June 27, 2011, 06:06:31 pm by Tim McCulloch »
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"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

James Feenstra

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Re: needing help
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2011, 06:45:28 pm »

We're looking to replace the existing PA.  We would like something scaleable, feeding audiences of 200 to 5,000.  We would also like something ground-stackable, able to run on minimum power (if possible), easy to set-up/teardown, powered or unpowered, and preferably budget-friendly.

I know this is probably in the searches, but I don't know how to search for this.  We're looking to do something very soon.

Please give some ideas to look at.  A JBL SRX rig of 4 tops, 4 sides, processing, and amps is about $22,000 new.  We're looking for something along those lines, etc..

Thoughts please:
I can't think of anything new in that price range (for full rack and stack system anyways) that would reliably do 5000 people with proper coverage or spl and sound at least moderately good. a pair of srx's a side definitely won't cut it with a crowd that big.

maybe if it's inside a wide but shallow room for a talking head gig with a speaker who knows how to use a microphone and project, but that's still pushing it on a relatively low budget.

personally I'd look into used gear and pick up a mid sized line array...something like 4 boxes a side over 3 subs with a decent box you can use for delays and/or fills. You *may* be able to fit that into your budget with something like qsc, ev, peavy or yorkville. Not terrible boxes but by no means competition to something like meyer or l'acoustics.

it also allows for expansion in the future as you can easily pick up more boxes. I'd check and find out what people in the area have so you can cross rent to each other if one of you has a show you need a bigger PA on as well.

I assume you have a smaller system already which you can use for the smaller gigs
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Spenser Hamilton

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Re: needing help
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2011, 07:01:24 pm »

The SRX rig isn't scalable to 5k punters outside (unless only a few hundred want to hear it loud) and doesn't run on minimal power.

Exactly, I use SRX boxes everyday, in many differing configurations ranging from a pair of 715s on stands, up to 8x725+8x728. We top out at about 3-4k people with the full rig, providing side stage sound at a local festival, the main stage gets sub-contracted to a larger company plain and simple. It's not a matter of power here, it's a matter of getting that power where it needs to go, and an SRX rig just isn't designed for that type of application IMO.
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