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[Tracy Garner]

My company deploys wireless credit card terminals and some are in use by major concert merchandisers. Recently, we've had some recent communication-related issues. One in FL, one in Texas, and a few in other regions.

Supposedly, the carriers have awesome coverage in these areas. When the venue reaches around 15,000 people, we start having issues with our credit card terminals.

At the same time, IP networks may not be available at some venues. We need a backup solution when the credit card terminals lose signal.

Questions:
Do most major sound companies typically carry enough extra IP banwidth to support maybe 20-30 IP credit card terminals with a very small network imprint on their local networks?

Do the sound companies generally have their own connection to the internet with the IP networks they use for their SR gear?

Am I even barking up the right tree?

[Rob Spence]

My company deploys wireless credit card terminals and some are in use by major concert merchandisers. Recently, we've had some recent communication-related issues. One in FL, one in Texas, and a few in other regions.

Supposedly, the carriers have awesome coverage in these areas. When the venue reaches around 15,000 people, we start having issues with our credit card terminals.

At the same time, IP networks may not be available at some venues. We need a backup solution when the credit card terminals lose signal.

Questions:
Do most major sound companies typically carry enough extra IP banwidth to support maybe 20-30 IP credit card terminals with a very small network imprint on their local networks?

Do the sound companies generally have their own connection to the internet with the IP networks they use for their SR gear?

Am I even barking up the right tree?

Gee, I would be surprised if "sound companies" connect "their" networks to the Internet at all. On the other hand, the "Production" may need Internet for some functions.

I would expect a few laptops carried by the sound folk to connect to a venue Internet connection though.

[g'bye, Dick Rees]

Supposedly, the carriers have awesome coverage in these areas. When the venue reaches around 15,000 people, we start having issues with our credit card terminals.

Coverage, yes.  Capacity?  Maybe not so much.

[Andrew Hastings]

HI Tracy

As Dick says the problem is the Capacity of the system, the local cells will only
be able to connect a certain amount of callers at one time.
And 15,000 people would probably be two many.
Some cell companys would bring in extra transceiver masts,to the location, to add extra capacity to the local system, for the event.

There is one big job that i do every year, and up until they brought in extra capacity
transceiver masts, for the three day event last year.
You could not get an incoming or outgoing signal, on the second day between 1100am and 6.00pm
until some of the crowd went home, and then all your missed calls and text messages arrived to your phone around 6.30 pm

Hope this helps

Andrew

[Tracy Garner]

HI Tracy

As Dick says the problem is the Capacity of the system, the local cells will only
be able to connect a certain amount of callers at one time.
And 15,000 people would probably be two many.
Some cell companys would bring in extra transceiver masts,to the location, to add extra capacity to the local system, for the event.

There is one big job that i do every year, and up until they brought in extra capacity
transceiver masts, for the three day event last year.
You could not get an incoming or outgoing signal, on the second day between 1100am and 6.00pm
until some of the crowd went home, and then all your missed calls and text messages arrived to your phone around 6.30 pm

Hope this helps

Andrew

Exactly the info I'm looking for. I actually have an inquiry to understand how it might be possible to basically lock in coverage from one of those portable masts. Imagine the loss of sales at the absolute largest audiences when the credit card terminals fail to process during that short window of opportunity. At this point, its about 80% card vs cash sales these days.

[Chris Carpenter]

Exactly the info I'm looking for. I actually have an inquiry to understand how it might be possible to basically lock in coverage from one of those portable masts. Imagine the loss of sales at the absolute largest audiences when the credit card terminals fail to process during that short window of opportunity. At this point, its about 80% card vs cash sales these days.

I think what you are looking at is a product restructuring. If you have to bring in more cell phone capacity to run your product, then share that with everyone at the event, your going to have problems. Why not set up groups of card processors on 802.11, then have a hub connected to a satellite modem for your big shows? I figured that's how you guys were doing it anyways.

[Tracy Garner]

I think what you are looking at is a product restructuring. If you have to bring in more cell phone capacity to run your product, then share that with everyone at the event, your going to have problems. Why not set up groups of card processors on 802.11, then have a hub connected to a satellite modem for your big shows? I figured that's how you guys were doing it anyways.

Yep - This is exactly where we are at this point - restructuring. It seems like the production teams already may have much of the infrastructure in place since it is critical to protect certain IP-related functions from the public yet still be able to perform remote control.

The payment card industry has a lot of restrictions around the use of wi-fi due to the level of encryption. We also have a web-based product where we can hook up a card reader to a laptop or even use a smart phone with card reader attached. Problem lies in getting a web connection from an air card at these places.

Stadiums typically have internet and I would imagine they typically provision it via wi-fi. I may end up having to go ahead of these events and architect the best approach for each venue. It sure would be easier to partner with a production team though. I didn't know if this was already being done.

[Mike Lieman]

I suspect if you work with a reputable networking company with national scope and run all your data over a real-live corporate grade VPN on top of WiFi, that you can get a system which will be compliant with your PCI DSS audit requirements.

[Paul Walters]

I was afraid this was going to be a story about cellular interference through the PA... dit dit dit dit dit dit dit dit

[Chris Carpenter]

I suspect if you work with a reputable networking company with national scope and run all your data over a real-live corporate grade VPN on top of WiFi, that you can get a system which will be compliant with your PCI DSS audit requirements.

This was the first thing i thought of as well. VPN would give you all the security you would need. The two main issues would be that you would have to get a VPN client for the environment your card processors are running on, and every client network would have to let your vpn through the firewall.

Regardless, that sounds like a fun problem.

[David Morison]

And 15,000 people would probably be two many.

So, umm, 14,998's ok?
Just trying to work out how the stewards are going to enforce that... 
Cheers,
David.

[Frank DeWitt]

Well,  You know the event is coming way ahead of time.  You know the cell service will be compromised.  You could make plans and order that other phone stuff,  Let's see,  I have it here some where,  Oh here it is, Land lines.     I know,  A bit hard when the company business is wireless credit card terminals.  Back to lurk mode.

[Tracy Garner]

Well,  You know the event is coming way ahead of time.  You know the cell service will be compromised.  You could make plans and order that other phone stuff,  Let's see,  I have it here some where,  Oh here it is, Land lines.     I know,  A bit hard when the company business is wireless credit card terminals.  Back to lurk mode.

aww man - don't remind me. Analog still rules the world.

We always have this as a fallback. Thanks for all the input.

[ProSoundWeb Community]