ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5   Go Down

Author Topic: Electronic Drums or Acoustic Drums  (Read 14649 times)

Taylor Phillips

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 371
Re: Electronic Drums or Acoustic Drums
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2011, 02:24:51 pm »

I've never seen acoustic drums used without a drum shield, no matter how large the venue, and I've been in churches with over 5,000 seats.

I'm glad to see someone finally admit in public that acoustic drums in a little plexiglass room sound like dumrs in a little plexiglass room.
I've never liked acoustic drums behind shields for that reason.  People also seem to forget that acoustic drums are made to fill a room with sound without reinforcement, and manufacturers make different kits for different styles and thus different volumes.  Many churches buy acoustic kits made for loud rock music and made to keep up with several loud guitar and bass cabinets that are likely to be turned up too loud, rather than a jazz kit that is made to match the volume of other acoustic instruments.  My sister played acoustic drums (no mics, or shield) in our 120 seat church for years before she got married and moved away.  Most of the time we didn't mic the baby grand either. 

Also, I don't how I forgot about these in my last post, but hot rod sticks can be a good solution to calm down loud drums, and I like their sound better than regular sticks.  I've made some recordings recently and used both sticks and rods for different takes, and decided to use the track with rods over the sticks in each instance.
Logged

Michael Prudhomme

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2
Re: Electronic Drums or Acoustic Drums
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2011, 06:05:57 pm »

We have drums behind plexiglass with lid panals and the rear closed in. The panals are sound absorbing. I Audix mics on the kick, toms, snare and use 2 condensors on phantom power to pick up the cymbols except for the High hat it's has it's own mic which I have all the lows pulled out on the EQ. I use compresson on the snare and the kick and put the same reverb that I use for my vocals on the toms. With out compresson and Reverb, our drums would sound like a cheap toy drum set. Our drummer also has some dampning gels on the toms. If you need to purchase a kick drum mic go with the AKG D112. Our Audix mic had the diaphram blown do to the volume of air from the kick. Having the drums fully inclosed is great. We now can control the over all volume. You might need to put some of the drums in your monitor mix if not all your singers have inner ears. This will help with them draging on the vocal timing.
Logged

Brad Weber

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2209
  • Marietta, GA
Re: Electronic Drums or Acoustic Drums
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2011, 08:58:07 am »

Like Arnold's comments, I have known some churches and some very good drummers that preferred electronic drums, especially for the variety of sounds possible.  I also have encountered drummers many that detest electronic drums for various reasons, in some cases they have valid points while in others I think it is just because they belive that they should.  However the best drummer I ever played with was happy to use whatever he was given as long as it meant that he could play.
Logged

Thomas Harkin

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 100
  • Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, USA
Re: Electronic Drums or Acoustic Drums
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2011, 10:25:55 am »

Like Arnold's comments, I have known some churches and some very good drummers that preferred electronic drums, especially for the variety of sounds possible.  I also have encountered drummers many that detest electronic drums for various reasons, in some cases they have valid points while in others I think it is just because they belive that they should.  However the best drummer I ever played with was happy to use whatever he was given as long as it meant that he could play.

I, too, have encountered all those "same" drummers.

Remember, it took time to master the instrument (acoustic drums) and it takes time and effort to master another (electronic drums).  Use the presets as a staring point, only!  Read and understand the manual, so that you will understand the instrument.  Every e-drum that I have been around, as a mixer, was adjustable.

Play with the settings for sensitivity, especially if the pads have mesh heads, not just the rubber pads.

We, the band director, drummer, and I, spent most of one Saturday adjusting settings and building "kits" for each type of song the band normally plays. It can work very successfully!

Thomas
Logged

Michael Galica

  • Church and H.O.W. Forums
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18
Re: Electronic Drums or Acoustic Drums
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2011, 11:45:52 am »

[Many churches buy acoustic kits made for loud rock music and made to keep up with several loud guitar and bass cabinets that are likely to be turned up too loud, rather than a jazz kit that is made to match the volume of other acoustic instruments.]

Jazz kits made to match the volume of other acoustic instruments?
Really??

While it may sound a little silly, in practice this is true.  Most entry-level drumsets are built with 6ply shells made out Maple, Poplar or a composite.  The 6-ply shells gives volume and cut, and woods like Maple have a rather punchy tone.  Jazz-style kits typically use thinner shells with 4-ply Birch shells, which sacrifice volume for a lighter, airier tone.  The kits with the thinner shells sound better at lower volumes than the more common 6-ply kits, which require a harder hit to get the heavier shell to vibrate.
Logged
Mike Galica
Pastor
Holy Cross Lutheran Church

Kent Thompson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 293
Re: Electronic Drums or Acoustic Drums
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2011, 05:56:48 pm »

Change out the thick cymbals for nice flexible thin ones that don't make so much noise. In our case its the cymbals that cause all the issues.
Logged

Dave Scarlett

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 293
Re: Electronic Drums or Acoustic Drums
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2011, 03:04:24 pm »

For sure. When I've either been playing in a band or mixing for one, no one has ever said "the cymbals are too quiet"! (except outdoors)
Logged

BobWitte

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 114
  • Soundman, Consultant, Love all things audio
    • Cascading Waters Audio
Re: Electronic Drums or Acoustic Drums
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2011, 01:10:53 pm »

As far as what we get in the in-ears, the drums sound great and the drummers love playing them.
As far as the room goes, I don't believe it was designed for just acoustical music, i.e. organ/choir.  We've never really done that, but we do try to do a healthy mix of contemporary - traditional songs.  The sound reinforcement below 300hz is not musical at all, but for the most part, vocals can sound really nice in there.  A kick drum and bass guitar though is a challenge. 

If the sound reproduction system (speakers/amps/EQ/room dynamics) is poor (and I assume you can have a good mix since the IEM sound is good)  as you state below 300 Hz, then you will have a problem with electronic drums too. Correct the "reinforcement system" first, then work on the drum problem.

BrianAbington

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7
Re: Electronic Drums or Acoustic Drums
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2011, 12:02:00 pm »

I would check with your local music/pro audio store that sells the drum enclosures and ask them for prices on the absorption panels, then ask them if you can borrow or rent them for a week if you explain whats going on they may at least let you rent them.

Get enough panels to enclose the top and across the back with a few extras to switch out some of the plexi panels.

you may find that just across the top and back is enough...or you may need to reduce your plexi to just a window across the front.

Once its enclosed remove your overheads and try under micing all the cymbals.

Then ask the drummer who is the most passionate about keeping an acoustic kit if he would come in a couple nights that week and help you work with rearranging the plexi and absorbers

Then see if the pastor notices a difference in sound on Sunday Morning :)

Also the not sounding good below 300hz...that 300-200 range may be a node issue with the room, or a frequency response issue with the full range speakers.

Anything below 200 may be a sub placement issue...have you walked around the room during practice and services to see how it sounds in different points around the room?

I helped out with a college ministry when I was younger. They had their own services in a small warehouse that was separate from the main church. The room was perfectly square with the stage set across a corner. It had floor seats and then risers along one wall. The sub was a Cerwin Vega folded horn with a single 18 that was set off to the right of the stage and at a 90 degree angle to the stage. It sounded horrible, not musical at all, it was very much a one note wonder, it couldn't be heard on the opposite side of the stage, was to loud on 90% of the floor and when you got over into the corner or up in the upper two rows of the risers it would give you a headache. So most people would come down to the floor during music then go sit up in the stands for the message. The mains also sounded like they were lacking because what was coming from the sub was not musical.

When I was asked to run sound the first thing I did was move that sub, I laid it down on its side directly in front center of the stage and it sounded completely different. You could hear all the notes of the bass, the low end synth sounded like it should and a kick sounded like a kick. The mains sounded way better and everything blended together.

You may need to move your sub, or even add another one. Try moving it around and see if you notice any difference.

My old church in Omaha added a line array and they had a special night of worship for the congregation to come in. They told them it was an opportunity to EQ the new system with a room full of people.

You may find doing a special service like that to be a good thing. Make it a night with dinner and worship and be up front about the fact that the system has issues, and you guys will be playing with the drum enclosure, EQ and maybe even the sub placement.

It will be a lot of fun.
Logged

Per Sovik

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 172
  • Sogn, Norway, Europe
Re: Electronic Drums or Acoustic Drums
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2011, 05:36:13 am »

I recently talked the drummer into taking his "practice at home" electronic set to the church gig instead of his usual Pearl acoustic set. We also ran the instruments straigt to the mixer and had the whole band on IEM, only having monitors for the singers and the choir. The result was a much cleaner mix where even the drums sounded better despite the limitations of an electronic set. The drums didn't sound as good as an acoustic set in a studio, and maybe not as good as an acoustic set on a riser on an outdoor festival stage with lots of space, but they were still a lot cleaner and defined than we could hope to achieve in a setting with confined space and brick walls. Having the 14 vocal mikes pick up only the vocals and a slight reverberation (that I would have added anyway) made everything sound better. There was still an issue with the grand piano, being loud at the front seats and coming thru a bit weak at the back when the balance was right in the centre of the hall, and still some sound off the back of the monitors that muffled the sound for the front centre rows. Front fills will solve the latter problem, and I've got a feeling that a $700 stage piano will outperform a $70K concert grand in this setting.
Moral: It is not about the best sound for individual instruments, but what achieves the best overall sound.
Logged

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Electronic Drums or Acoustic Drums
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2011, 05:36:13 am »


Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5   Go Up
 



Page created in 0.031 seconds with 22 queries.