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Author Topic: bass guitar boomy  (Read 12149 times)

Paul van Dort

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Re: bass guitar boomy
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2011, 04:27:25 pm »

My sound is great at rehearsal Thru 1x15 & 1X12 cabs. At the gig I run those and a line out of pre-amp to FOH. At most if not all venues my baseline settings need to be adjusted. EQ'ing less lows and low mids both for stage and FOH. Any ideas?
Perhaps the Fletsher -Munson curves have something to do with it. I can imagine that the volume on stage is higher than what you use at rehearsals. in that cast the lows will be perceived harder, resulting in more muddy sound.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fletcher%E2%80%93Munson_curves

Also the FOH is doing a better job in getting the lows out than a  bass rig...
FWIW

Paul
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Paul Dershem

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Re: bass guitar boomy
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2011, 06:31:29 pm »

I bought the FDeck high-impedance HPF/Pre [with phase switch] to use with double bass, and its variable HPF works really well to attenuate unwanted bass frequencies; when I find myself on a boomy stage, I also use it with 4- and 5-string electric bass:

http://personalpages.tds.net/~fdeck/bass/hpfpre.htm

It's always in my gig bag.
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Ned Ward

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Re: bass guitar boomy
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2011, 09:10:52 pm »

Auralex GRAMMA is also a great thing for your rig - it decouples your bass amp/cabs from the stage, which can sometimes add low boominess that's unwanted. I have two for home and bring one with us to gigs for our bass player to use - works like a charm.
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Mike Reilly

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Re: bass guitar boomy
« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2011, 02:14:06 am »

I don't have a problem with adjusting eq for the room; I just thought that with all the combined audio genius here that I'd get more a more technical explanation than "learn to get along with it"

Well, what the hell - I'll give it a shot.

Physics.

Sound is a wave moving through the air, and low frequencies have large wavelengths.

Some quick-and-dirty Googling says that the low E string on a bass is approx 41 Hertz, and 41 Hertz has a wavelength of 27.5 feet.

So I'd say what's happening is that you are "used to" the sound of a rehearsal space - you set your tone & volume appropriately for a relatively small space, and then as you go to larger performance spaces, the low frequencies actually have room for the full wavelength to develop, and then to reflect off of walls that are further away than you're used to, so you get the full wavelength coming back at you, which meets more low frequencies coming from your amp, and as these various sound waves meet each other, some frequencies will combine and become louder, others will interfere with each other and become softer.

Then add a PA system to the equation, with subs with 18" speakers and probably more power behind them than your bass rig, and you've got even more low end being created in the room.

Or to put it another way, what your bass sounds like live is really what your bass sounds like - you just can't hear it in the physically smaller space of a rehearsal or recording studio.

I hope this is clear - maybe explaining physics after a couple of glasses of Knob Creek isn't the best idea . . .  ::)

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Tim Padrick

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Re: bass guitar boomy
« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2011, 04:56:16 am »

I bought the FDeck high-impedance HPF/Pre [with phase switch] to use with double bass, and its variable HPF works really well to attenuate unwanted bass frequencies; when I find myself on a boomy stage, I also use it with 4- and 5-string electric bass:

http://personalpages.tds.net/~fdeck/bass/hpfpre.htm

It's always in my gig bag.

High pass no.  Parametric EQ yes.  Using a high pass to solve the problem is like cutting off your foot because you have a bad toe.
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Douglas R. Allen

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Re: bass guitar boomy
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2011, 06:30:08 am »

I don't have a problem with adjusting eq for the room; I just thought that with all the combined audio genius here that I'd get more a more technical explanation than "learn to get along with it"

Well, what the hell - I'll give it a shot.

Physics.

Sound is a wave moving through the air, and low frequencies have large wavelengths.

Some quick-and-dirty Googling says that the low E string on a bass is approx 41 Hertz, and 41 Hertz has a wavelength of 27.5 feet.

So I'd say what's happening is that you are "used to" the sound of a rehearsal space - you set your tone & volume appropriately for a relatively small space, and then as you go to larger performance spaces, the low frequencies actually have room for the full wavelength to develop, and then to reflect off of walls that are further away than you're used to, so you get the full wavelength coming back at you, which meets more low frequencies coming from your amp, and as these various sound waves meet each other, some frequencies will combine and become louder, others will interfere with each other and become softer.

Then add a PA system to the equation, with subs with 18" speakers and probably more power behind them than your bass rig, and you've got even more low end being created in the room.

Or to put it another way, what your bass sounds like live is really what your bass sounds like - you just can't hear it in the physically smaller space of a rehearsal or recording studio.

I hope this is clear - maybe explaining physics after a couple of glasses of Knob Creek isn't the best idea . . .  ::)

To add to this.
The lower you go in freq. the less directional sound waves are. With the main pa in front of you the lows from it are wrapping around to reach you. You hear the lows from the PA but not the highs. This makes you hear just the "Mud" in the 400 to 120hz range as well as the freq. below this. As stated above some freq. will be combined while others subtract from each other. Depending on where you are on stage and your on stage bass rig is compared to the subs this could be a major problem for you.

As a part of the sound check. If the sound operator doesn't do this already have them try the Phase/Polarity button at the desk and see if it improves or makes worse the sound on stage for you. You may fine one way or the other makes your stage sound better for you and maybe even better for the person doing the mix.

Douglas R. Allen
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Paul Dershem

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Re: bass guitar boomy
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2011, 03:47:06 pm »

High pass no.  Parametric EQ yes.  Using a high pass to solve the problem is like cutting off your foot because you have a bad toe.

What can I tell you? It works very well, Tim. I insert the HPF/Pre between my bass and my on-stage rig; FOH gets a full-range signal - post-effects, pre-EQ.

When I'm playing in a venue with superabundant lows, it's simple to turn the knob (raise the LPF frequency) until the problem is solved. I find that too much bass fundamental can sound terrible; for the kind of music I play, the absent fundamentals are seldom missed, especially with "upright" bass and five-string electric.

Granted, I'm talking about jazz, not hip-hip or reggae.

Do you play double bass?
« Last Edit: August 07, 2011, 06:05:09 pm by Paul Dershem »
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g'bye, Dick Rees

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Re: bass guitar boomy
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2011, 03:57:36 pm »

Do you play double bass?

I do!  I do!

Well, I used to.......
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Paul Dershem

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Re: bass guitar boomy
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2011, 04:02:58 pm »

I do!  I do!

Well, I used to.......

My brother!
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Cosmo

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Re: bass guitar boomy
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2011, 04:42:28 pm »




<snip>
Depending on where you are on stage and your on stage bass rig is compared to the subs this could be a major problem for you.


I believe this is essentially the answer to your question.  Multiple sources of LF, plus (as Mike Reilly mentioned) the reflections of the room, makes a lot of LF mud.

Every room is different.  Keep as many tools on hand as possible to deal with different situations.

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Re: bass guitar boomy
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2011, 04:42:28 pm »


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