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[Dave Wightman]

Since my last post got deleted due to my username, not being my real name, I am going to post this again:


I am looking to buy myself a PA system which I will probably use for doing sound for a friend's band along with any bands that I play with requiring a PA . My friend's band has 2 guitar players playing out of 60 watt amps, a bass player playing out of a 350 watt amp, and drums. They usually play in bars and small auditoriums. My first question is how many watts should I be looking for in this PA? They already have a Phonic PA system that has 200 watts, so I was wondering if I could use the speakers from this as monitors and just buy new speakers and a powered mixer (the speakers they currently have have a 160 watt peak and 80 watt program)? Any suggestions and advice would be appreciated as I am pretty new to this. Thanks!

This is the gear they currently have:
http://backstage.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/phonic-powerpod-620-plus--s710-pa-package/630486000000000

And this is the gear I'm currently have (My budget limit is about $800, and I know that powered mixers aren't the best, but I don't know if I can afford a separate mixer and power amp. Also, their monitors are passive, so I'm not sure if I can run powered speakers)

http://backstage.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/phonic-powerpod-1860-plus--s715-pa-package/502576000000000

[Paul G. OBrien]

With 120w of lead/rhythm guitar amp on stage you're wasting your time with this not-even-entry-level PA system.. it's got NO CHANCE of even getting the vocals over that racket. Forget powered mixers and start looking at powered speakers instead, you'll need to spend that whole $800 and maybe a bit more on a pair of 12+1 mains(ex: EV ELX112 or Mackie SRM 450) just to put the vocals through for now, and then start saving up for a decent mixer and powered subs so you can eventually put the whole band through the PA. If you do it this way you'll have a high quality PA worth something in the end, otherwise you're just throwing good money after bad in an endless upgrade cycle.

[Charlie Zureki]

Since my last post got deleted due to my username, not being my real name, I am going to post this again:


I am looking to buy myself a PA system which I will probably use for doing sound for a friend's band along with any bands that I play with requiring a PA . My friend's band has 2 guitar players playing out of 60 watt amps, a bass player playing out of a 350 watt amp, and drums. They usually play in bars and small auditoriums. My first question is how many watts should I be looking for in this PA? They already have a Phonic PA system that has 200 watts, so I was wondering if I could use the speakers from this as monitors and just buy new speakers and a powered mixer (the speakers they currently have have a 160 watt peak and 80 watt program)? Any suggestions and advice would be appreciated as I am pretty new to this. Thanks!

This is the gear they currently have:
http://backstage.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/phonic-powerpod-620-plus--s710-pa-package/630486000000000

And this is the gear I'm currently have (My budget limit is about $800, and I know that powered mixers aren't the best, but I don't know if I can afford a separate mixer and power amp. Also, their monitors are passive, so I'm not sure if I can run powered speakers)

http://backstage.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/phonic-powerpod-1860-plus--s715-pa-package/502576000000000

  Hello,

  Your budget is incredibly small...I'd suggest trying to find an old 16 channel powered Yamaha Mixer and a couple of their 12" monitors for the "mains".   It'll have more power and reliability....and you could use the monitors if you decide to expand your rig.

    Or, save your money to purchase some better gear and pay a local sound provider to work your gig.  He'll have better, more flexible gear and you'll be able to concentrate on making music.

  Hammer

[Dave Wightman]

With 120w of lead/rhythm guitar amp on stage you're wasting your time with this not-even-entry-level PA system.. it's got NO CHANCE of even getting the vocals over that racket. Forget powered mixers and start looking at powered speakers instead, you'll need to spend that whole $800 and maybe a bit more on a pair of 12+1 mains(ex: EV ELX112 or Mackie SRM 450) just to put the vocals through for now, and then start saving up for a decent mixer and powered subs so you can eventually put the whole band through the PA. If you do it this way you'll have a high quality PA worth something in the end, otherwise you're just throwing good money after bad in an endless upgrade cycle.

In that case, should I use their current powered mixer as a passive mixer? And will I be alright using passive speakers as monitors? I might be able to raise the budget to about $1,000, but it probably won't go much higher than that

[duane massey]

Given your circumstances, buy the best pair of powered speakers you can afford (12+horn). Use the existing mixer until you can upgrade to a better mixer, and use the existing speakers for monitors until you can upgrade there. I am assuming the Phonic has a line-level output?

Wattage is a meaningless number unless you know all the other factors.

[Dave Wightman]

Given your circumstances, buy the best pair of powered speakers you can afford (12+horn). Use the existing mixer until you can upgrade to a better mixer, and use the existing speakers for monitors until you can upgrade there. I am assuming the Phonic has a line-level output?

Wattage is a meaningless number unless you know all the other factors.

Even though the mixer is a powered mixer, will it still be okay with powered speakers? And the current speakers they have are passive, will this work even with powered speakers?

[Albert Thomas]

Even though the mixer is a powered mixer, will it still be okay with powered speakers? And the current speakers they have are passive, will this work even with powered speakers?

Yes and yes. Your Phonic has  "main" and "monitor" outputs on the front panel that can go straight to the powered speakers that will be your mains. The speakers you have now to use for monitors will continue to be powered from the Phonic powered mixer. Get two of the best powered speakers you can afford and tripod stands to get them up and you'll good to go for now until you need/want/can afford an upgrade.

[Dave Wightman]

Yes and yes. Your Phonic has  "main" and "monitor" outputs on the front panel that can go straight to the powered speakers that will be your mains. The speakers you have now to use for monitors will continue to be powered from the Phonic powered mixer. Get two of the best powered speakers you can afford and tripod stands to get them up and you'll good to go for now until you need/want/can afford an upgrade.

So would the pair of Proels or the pair of Mackies work? (links on the bottom) And thank you so much for the help!

http://www.thedjhouse.com/item/proel-flash12a-powered/

http://www.thedjhouse.com/item/mackie-th15a-tapco-thump-15/

[Dave Wightman]

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Thump15/

I'm not sure what the Tapco 15 means, so I'll use this link for the Mackie to be safe

[Mark McFarlane]

Hi Dave,

I'm with the others as to buying just new main speakers, as good a quality as you can.  I've never heard the Mackie Tapco speakers, but being their entry level speaker I doubt it will be great or have much resale value (but ya gotta live within your budget).   You might consider buying used, for example you might be able to pick up a pair of used Mackie SRM450s (or the equivalent from JBL, Yorkville,.. for $800--$1000).  That should be step up from the Tapco's and buying used gives you better resale value (They've already depreciated), and if you keep doing live sound the SRM450's can someday end up on the floor as reasonable monitors when you upgrade your main speakers.

[Paul G. OBrien]

So would the pair of Proels or the pair of Mackies work? (links on the bottom) And thank you so much for the help!

http://www.thedjhouse.com/item/proel-flash12a-powered/

http://www.thedjhouse.com/item/mackie-th15a-tapco-thump-15/

Have never seen or heard of Proel but I just bought a pair of TH-12a for a rental system and they actually sound quite good, they are fully DSP processed and are really light at only 25lbs and get reasonably loud. They won't compete with the SRM450 in terms of SPL output but even with the limit LED flashing away on the back panel there is little audible distortion. I have them paired with an SRM1801 and in that configuration it is a very capable system suitable for a live band or DJ in a smaller room.

[duane massey]

Most importantly, know and accept the limitations of your system. It will not be loud enough for larger rooms, and the band will have to adjust their stage volume to avoid over-powering the FOH. I would strongly suggest not mic'ing anything but vocals until you can upgrade to a better system. 100's (1,000's ) of bands do this quite succesfully for small to medium club gigs.

Don't push it until it sounds bad or blows up.

[Dave Wightman]

Hi Dave,

I'm with the others as to buying just new main speakers, as good a quality as you can.  I've never heard the Mackie Tapco speakers, but being their entry level speaker I doubt it will be great or have much resale value (but ya gotta live within your budget).   You might consider buying used, for example you might be able to pick up a pair of used Mackie SRM450s (or the equivalent from JBL, Yorkville,.. for $800--$1000).  That should be step up from the Tapco's and buying used gives you better resale value (They've already depreciated), and if you keep doing live sound the SRM450's can someday end up on the floor as reasonable monitors when you upgrade your main speakers.

I could probably afford the SRM450s, so I'll look through eBay, and if I can't find them used, I'll get them new. Since I'll only be doing the vocals, should I be looking for 12" speakers or 15" speakers?

[Dave Wightman]

Also, any thoughts on this speaker? It's a lot of power for the price which scares me, but I have heard good things about EV

http://www.proaudiostar.com/live-sound/loudspeakers/elx115p-two-way-powered-loudspeaker-open-box.html

[g'bye, Dick Rees]

Also, any thoughts on this speaker? It's a lot of power for the price which scares me, but I have heard good things about EV

http://www.proaudiostar.com/live-sound/loudspeakers/elx115p-two-way-powered-loudspeaker-open-box.html

No matter what speakers you end up choosing (at your stated price point) you're still "in at the beginning" as far as assembling some "PA" gear.  As others have said it is likely that you'll be using the speakers you get just to get the voices over the stage sound level.  Think of it this way:

You're basically an acoustic group.  Everyone is responsible for their own sound and levels.  You'll have to work together to make it balance out.  The vocals will have their own "amps" now in whatever speaker system you end up with.  So you'll be balancing all these things individually.  Vocals only in the PA.

If you get to the point where you need a system which will handle more than just voice, you'll be looking at a much more substantial investment.......in experience and education as well as money.  It's a BIG jump from a vocals only PA to something that will be capable of handling multiple inputs and someone who knows how to operate the gear and blend the sounds.

Bon voyage.  Enjoy the trip.

[Paul G. OBrien]

Since I'll only be doing the vocals, should I be looking for 12" speakers or 15" speakers?

12's do mids better than 15's and you don't want or need anything below ~100hz or so in the vocal mix, and since you'll likely be adding subs at some point 15" mains just take up unnecessary packing space.

Don't be at all afraid of buying speakers with big onboard amplifiers.. that's just more headroom for clean sound. The ELX series is very good by all accounts, exceptional bang for the buck at current list prices.

[g'bye, Dick Rees]

12's do mids better than 15's and you don't want or need anything below ~100hz or so in the vocal mix, and since you'll likely be adding subs at some point 15" mains just take up unnecessary packing space.

I agree with the 12's......or double 12's.  But you know that it won't be just "adding subs".
It'll be adding subs that compliment the mains first bought or replacing them with subs + tops which match the bands needs, snakes, amps, mixer, trailer to haul it, lights, etc, etc, etc.

It's very dangerous to think of just "adding subs" at some point.  We all know how much stuff is needed and the eventual amount invested.......somewhere between 15 and 30x the OPs stated budget at this time

[Mike Pyle]

RCF ART312A would fit your use perfectly, and is the best value I know of right now in 12" powered two way tops. I sent you a pm with more info.

[Dave Wightman]

RCF ART312A would fit your use perfectly, and is the best value I know of right now in 12" powered two way tops. I sent you a pm with more info.

So I'm going to be getting these speakers soon. After this, I will probably be looking at a passive mixer, which I will most likely get at the end of the summer. Is there anyway I could connect this to a Phonic Powerpod 620? There's a link to it on the bottom. Thanks!

http://www.phonic.com/en/powerpod-620-plus.html

[Jean-Pierre Coetzee]

So I'm going to be getting these speakers soon. After this, I will probably be looking at a passive mixer, which I will most likely get at the end of the summer. Is there anyway I could connect this to a Phonic Powerpod 620? There's a link to it on the bottom. Thanks!

http://www.phonic.com/en/powerpod-620-plus.html

I'm assuming you want to run the powered mixer to run the passive monitors when you get a passive mixer?

This can be done rather easily, either run direct outs from your passive mixer(mixer a) into the channels in your powered mixer(mixer b). This will give you the ability to eq each monitor channel individually(assuming you have enough channels).

Alternatively run your auxilary outputs on mixer a into some channels in mixer b and simple use mixer b as an amplifier with some mild eq if needed.

This can be done. Another note is to see if you can get a good digital mixer used rather than an analog mixer. A Yamaha O1v96 or similar should be good enough so that you can have a quicker setup every gig.

[Dave Wightman]

I'm assuming you want to run the powered mixer to run the passive monitors when you get a passive mixer?

This can be done rather easily, either run direct outs from your passive mixer(mixer a) into the channels in your powered mixer(mixer b). This will give you the ability to eq each monitor channel individually(assuming you have enough channels).

Alternatively run your auxilary outputs on mixer a into some channels in mixer b and simple use mixer b as an amplifier with some mild eq if needed.

This can be done. Another note is to see if you can get a good digital mixer used rather than an analog mixer. A Yamaha O1v96 or similar should be good enough so that you can have a quicker setup every gig.

Sorry for the late reply, but thank you for the response! And I'm assuming that the mics would go into mixer A? And would the powered speakers also connect into mixer A or would they still stayed plugged into mixer B?

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