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Author Topic: what in the world are they thinking ?  (Read 24005 times)

Tim McCulloch

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Re: what in the world are they thinking ?
« Reply #30 on: May 30, 2011, 11:01:49 am »

I used them in 1978-79. Tasco Sound from GB had them. And it must have been the 2441.

If I recall correctly, the conical HF horn (JBL, designed to be used with an acoustic lens in front of it) had a 20-degree coverage pattern. When standing at typical vocalist distance from one of these wedges you could move perhaps a foot or two from left to right (max) before you went out of coverage.

With carefully adjusted EQ they did get loud within that pattern.

..... the "good old days"    ::)

"And here comes the icepick in the forehead!" F. Zappa

TASCO - Try Another Sound Co.

MD Systems (John McBride, before Martina got signed) had the KYFO - Kick Your Face Off... as long as you were on-axis.  2x 2225, 1 2450 on either a 2385 or 2386 horn.  I thought of them like Wonder Bread: builds fine hernias 12 ways.

This was one of the first MD products to be 'time-aligned' by Brock Jabara of Galaxy Audio using their new TEFCRON 10.  John was so happy with the results he named his dog Tef.

Thanks for the memory jog.

Have fun, good luck.

Tim Mc
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"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

Tom Young

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Re: what in the world are they thinking ?
« Reply #31 on: May 30, 2011, 03:30:06 pm »

Just to be clear, this topic is about how good a system sounds in a picture?

Has anyone actually listened to this system?

It seems like the guy that is using them on an actual tour with actual people is pretty happy with them. Should we just assume that he does not know what he is doing?

Just saying...


John

Next time you need front fills, John, use some column speakers laid on their sides and let us (me) know how well the show went from the perspective of those who needed additional coverage.

OK ?

Tell you what: I'll buy you a beer just for trying this.

But please do let me know how well it works.
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Tom Young
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Martyn ferrit Rowe

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Re: what in the world are they thinking ?
« Reply #32 on: May 30, 2011, 04:31:35 pm »

Down-fall !

Here, I corrected it for you :)

Once and for all, there is no such thing as cylindrical wave front. (for crying out loud).

w/r

Not to Hijack the thread but....

Cylindrical wavefront resources:-

Ch5, p227-p231, "Fundamentals of Acoustics" - Bruneau
Ch7.3, p356-366, "Theoretical Acoustics" - Morse
Ch4, p115-148, "Fourier Acoustics" - Williams
Ch5.13, p133-135, "Fundamentals of Acoustics" -Kinser/Frey

But the big question is - "can cylindrical wavefronts be propagated by these devices?"

cheers
ferrit
(ex-TASCO)
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John Schimpf

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Re: what in the world are they thinking ?
« Reply #33 on: May 30, 2011, 06:52:48 pm »

Just to be clear, this topic is about how good a system sounds in a picture?

Has anyone actually listened to this system?

It seems like the guy that is using them on an actual tour with actual people is pretty happy with them. Should we just assume that he does not know what he is doing?

Just saying...


John

Next time you need front fills, John, use some column speakers laid on their sides and let us (me) know how well the show went from the perspective of those who needed additional coverage.

OK ?

Tell you what: I'll buy you a beer just for trying this.

But please do let me know how well it works.

My point is that it IS working, night after night, for thousands of fans.

Is this not the point of what we do? How can you criticize what you have never heard? Have you been to one of these shows and actually listened to this system work (or not work)?

Maybe you should buy the guy who is actually using them a beer for trying it every night, and MAKING HIS CLIENT HAPPY.

John
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Philip Roberts

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Re: what in the world are they thinking ?
« Reply #34 on: May 30, 2011, 07:21:21 pm »

They can be configured as 7 degrees or 120 degrees vertical - see page 4 of the manual

http://www.k-array.net/downloads/karray/documents/kk50vb_manual_09_eng_rev01.pdf

Does any one know how this switch works?

Interestingly and probably related is that the impedance is 16 ohm is spot mode (7 deg) and 8 ohm in flood mode (120 deg).

Philip
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: what in the world are they thinking ?
« Reply #35 on: May 30, 2011, 07:48:45 pm »

Does any one know how this switch works?

Interestingly and probably related is that the impedance is 16 ohm is spot mode (7 deg) and 8 ohm in flood mode (120 deg).

Philip
If I had to guess, I would say that most of the drivers (if not all but one) are turned off in the flood mode.  At least that is what appears to be happening in the polars shown.

So a single driver (or a pair or 3) would not have the narrowing as if all the drivers were working.

If the drivers are wired in a series/parallel configuration, the impedance change is not that odd.

Of course the output level would be less if fewer drivers were working.

That is my thought anyway.
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Dennis Awrey

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Re: what in the world are they thinking ?
« Reply #36 on: May 30, 2011, 08:36:22 pm »

Here are a couple MAPP images substituting MM4s for K-Array.
One is a plan view of a straight line of 90 MM4s at 2kHz.
The other is a plan view of 90 MM4s separated into six 5' sections, arrayed into an arc and predicted at 2 kHz
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Tom Young

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Re: what in the world are they thinking ?
« Reply #37 on: May 30, 2011, 09:04:58 pm »

Here are a couple MAPP images substituting MM4s for K-Array.
One is a plan view of a straight line of 90 MM4s at 2kHz.
The other is a plan view of 90 MM4s separated into six 5' sections, arrayed into an arc and predicted at 2 kHz

What can we conclude from this ?

Where are the other 1-octave and 1/3-octave plots ?

 
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Tom Young
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Tom Young

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Re: what in the world are they thinking ?
« Reply #38 on: May 30, 2011, 09:08:26 pm »

If I had to guess, I would say that most of the drivers (if not all but one) are turned off in the flood mode.  At least that is what appears to be happening in the polars shown.

So a single driver (or a pair or 3) would not have the narrowing as if all the drivers were working.

If the drivers are wired in a series/parallel configuration, the impedance change is not that odd.

Of course the output level would be less if fewer drivers were working.

That is my thought anyway.

Ivan-

JBL's CBT series (both models) have a narrow (ballpark 25-degrees)  and wide (45-degrees) switch setting.

I think this is accomplised by amplitutde shading and possibly phase adjustment. But all done passively.

FWIW
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Tom Young
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Dennis Awrey

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Re: what in the world are they thinking ?
« Reply #39 on: May 30, 2011, 09:10:01 pm »

Here are a couple MAPP images substituting MM4s for K-Array.
One is a plan view of a straight line of 90 MM4s at 2kHz.
The other is a plan view of 90 MM4s separated into six 5' sections, arrayed into an arc and predicted at 2 kHz

What can we conclude from this ?

Where are the other 1-octave and 1/3-octave plots ?

I can do more....I just selected a frequency in the middle of the vocal range
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Re: what in the world are they thinking ?
« Reply #39 on: May 30, 2011, 09:10:01 pm »


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