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Author Topic: what in the world are they thinking ?  (Read 24261 times)

Tom Young

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Re: what in the world are they thinking ?
« Reply #20 on: May 29, 2011, 03:32:10 pm »

.....those had the ability to do the DSP but you had to use a network computer to do it. i was hoping for so much more.

Are you kidding ?

Why, or how, in the world did you think you could use these without setting them up with the DSP ?

None of the digitally steerable systems come out of the box with a basic setting that would be useable.  They are designed to be meticulously set up to provide one (or several) very well focused beam(s) (lobes) to cover the seats in specific venues. And they require measurement and equalization.

Oy vey, como va.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2011, 03:55:04 pm by Tom Young »
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Tom Young
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Tom Young

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Re: what in the world are they thinking ?
« Reply #21 on: May 29, 2011, 03:42:37 pm »

As misguided as the front fill idea may have been, it pales in relation to this. Concave arrays used within the focal point of the array are not a good idea.

Mac

This makes a brain-dart stage monitor look almost like something to reconsider   ???

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Tom Young
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Frederik Rosenkjær

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Re: what in the world are they thinking ?
« Reply #22 on: May 29, 2011, 05:24:47 pm »


Once and for all, there is no such thing as cylindrical wave front. (for crying out loud).

Please explain this. Are all text books wrong when they talk about 3dB loss pr. distance doubling? Or are you talking "in practical terms"? (less than infinite line sources)

How about a bolt of lightning?
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Chris Hindle

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Re: what in the world are they thinking ?
« Reply #23 on: May 29, 2011, 06:27:01 pm »

As misguided as the front fill idea may have been, it pales in relation to this. Concave arrays used within the focal point of the array are not a good idea.

Mac

This makes a brain-dart stage monitor look almost like something to reconsider   ???



Let me guess, there's a 2441 in there, just to "hammer" in the dart....
My brain hurts just thinking about those monstrosities. About 25 years ago, I used some that used double 15's. Quite a statement they made....
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Ya, Whatever. Just throw a '57 on it, and get off my stage.

kristianjohnsen

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Re: what in the world are they thinking ?
« Reply #24 on: May 29, 2011, 06:39:53 pm »

Hi Tom

They can be configured as 7 degrees or 120 degree vertical - see page 4 of the manual

http://www.k-array.net/downloads/karray/documents/kk50vb_manual_09_eng_rev01.pdf

Regards

Peter



First of all:  That's very cool!

Second:  Somebody has a foot in his mouth...

Let me know how they both taste..... YOUR foot and a generous helping of humble pie  ;)

Did it ever occur to you that I actually took the time to read through the News article, then the spec sheets, before I publicly called these folks to task ?

I suspect that others here may also have taken the time to double-check to make sure I was on track, or not. You obviously did not.

Your bad.

Perhaps, in the future, you might not be so fast on the trigger.

I'm hoping someone from K-array chime in to let us know why they report about this usage on their home page if it's such a horrid idea.

I'm also curious as to the difference between KR 200 and KR 200s and what the "s" might stand for.

I'll report back on the taste of my foot if it turns out it was in my mouth.
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Robert Lunceford

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Re: what in the world are they thinking ?
« Reply #25 on: May 29, 2011, 09:44:48 pm »

Let me know how they both taste..... YOUR foot and a generous helping of humble pie  ;)

Did it ever occur to you that I actually took the time to read through the News article, then the spec sheets, before I publicly called these folks to task ?

I suspect that others here may also have taken the time to double-check to make sure I was on track, or not. You obviously did not.

Your bad.

Perhaps, in the future, you might not be so fast on the trigger.


I'm hoping someone from K-array chime in to let us know why they report about this usage on their home page if it's such a horrid idea.

I'm also curious as to the difference between KR 200 and KR 200s and what the "s" might stand for.

I'll report back on the taste of my foot if it turns out it was in my mouth.

The KR200 is the column line-array speaker. The KR200S is a packaged system (S) that consists of two column line arrays and two 18" subwoofers. The subwoofers contain power amps for both the subwoofer and the column arrays.


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Peter Morris

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Re: what in the world are they thinking ?
« Reply #26 on: May 30, 2011, 01:49:02 am »

Hi Tom

They can be configured as 7 degrees or 120 degrees vertical - see page 4 of the manual

http://www.k-array.net/downloads/karray/documents/kk50vb_manual_09_eng_rev01.pdf

Regards

Peter

Peter-

Please read the referenced News article again. Nowhere is the KK50vb mentioned.

There are two devices cited and neither of them provides switchable coverage.

Had only the KK50 been mentioned I probably would have found the KK50vb and crossed this off as simply a case of poor reporting and editing (dropping the suffix).

But if you actually READ the News article and look at the specs for the two cited devices you would also (I believe) logically conclude that they do not know what they are talking about. "They" apparently being the user/operator and the marketing person who wrote this piece.

I am not in the habit of taking folks to task on public forums. On the few occasions where I have, I have been very careful to (first of all) not cast aspersions against an innocent party and (secondly) to not be proven wrong or foolish.

In the process of achieving these two goals I read what was available about the two referenced devices. It would not surprise me if some of the folks here who seem to agree with my conclusion also did a little bit of homerwork first, before replying to my post.

The bottom line is that I stand by what I posted.

Hi Tom,

It’s an Italian article, I assume translated to English by a marketing team based on some information sent in by a sound contractor.  From my experience, I would not expect too much from the contractor, or the article in terms of technical accuracy especially given the above.

It did talk about KK50’s – I assumed that they meant KK50vb’s but who knows? …anyway, I wasn’t there to hear if was a good solution or not. I would have thought at that level the contractor would have provided a half reasonable solution, but in 2011 that may not have been the case.

I suspect most of us have never used or listed to the product, including myself. There may well be things that are significant but not detailed in the article.

Bottom line, they do appear to have a product that will work just fine for this application, whether or not their products were deployed correctly in this case is questionable.

The contractor may have only needed to fill a small gap in the centre…they may have been told they can be used for centre fill applications (KK50vb’s) and just assumed (wrongly) it would work with all of their boxes, the marketing team (who never seem to care about engineering) may have made a similar assumption, who knows?

Peter

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Tom Young

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Re: what in the world are they thinking ?
« Reply #27 on: May 30, 2011, 08:40:02 am »

This makes a brain-dart stage monitor look almost like something to reconsider   ???




Let me guess, there's a 2441 in there, just to "hammer" in the dart....
My brain hurts just thinking about those monstrosities. About 25 years ago, I used some that used double 15's. Quite a statement they made....

I used them in 1978-79. Tasco Sound from GB had them. And it must have been the 2441.

If I recall correctly, the conical HF horn (JBL, designed to be used with an acoustic lens in front of it) had a 20-degree coverage pattern. When standing at typical vocalist distance from one of these wedges you could move perhaps a foot or two from left to right (max) before you went out of coverage.

With carefully adjusted EQ they did get loud within that pattern.

..... the "good old days"    ::)
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Tom Young
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: what in the world are they thinking ?
« Reply #28 on: May 30, 2011, 09:36:01 am »

I used them in 1978-79. Tasco Sound from GB had them. And it must have been the 2441.

If I recall correctly, the conical HF horn (JBL, designed to be used with an acoustic lens in front of it) had a 20-degree coverage pattern. When standing at typical vocalist distance from one of these wedges you could move perhaps a foot or two from left to right (max) before you went out of coverage.

With carefully adjusted EQ they did get loud within that pattern.

..... the "good old days"    ::)
That would be considered a pretty narrow pattern-EXCEPT for the fact that below the point at which the very narrow pattern lost pattern control, the rest of the cabinet was spilling stuff all over the stage-interfering with other peoples mixes.

A sound co I used to do a lot of reconing for had some like those-I never really understood why somebody would want such a narrow coverage.  But for somebody who did not move around-I guess it was OK.  They were loud-and to some people that is all that matters.
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John Schimpf

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Re: what in the world are they thinking ?
« Reply #29 on: May 30, 2011, 10:25:28 am »

Just to be clear, this topic is about how good a system sounds in a picture?

Has anyone actually listened to this system?

It seems like the guy that is using them on an actual tour with actual people is pretty happy with them. Should we just assume that he does not know what he is doing?

Just saying...


John
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Re: what in the world are they thinking ?
« Reply #29 on: May 30, 2011, 10:25:28 am »


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