ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 6   Go Down

Author Topic: what in the world are they thinking ?  (Read 23631 times)

Ivan Beaver

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8809
  • Atlanta GA
Re: what in the world are they thinking ?
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2011, 10:17:44 am »

And (equally troubling).... how did the sound dude not notice the lack of HF coverage across the front seats ?


I think-therein lies a lot of the problem.  It is my hinest opinion that a large number of people in our industry simply do not listen to what they (or the systems they design) are actually doing.

It makes sound and if it gets loud-that is good enough for them.

I say it all the time when I walk into rooms "At some point-somebody said "this" was acceptable and got paid".  What about all the interference-what about all the large holes in the response-what about the wildly varying levels and so forth.

Years ago we had a little run in with a well known consultant.  We were asked to visit the church and see if we could improve the system.

It was HORRIBLE.  We called the consultant up on the phone and told him that the customer was very unhappy with the system.  He said-and this is a quote "Well I can prove that the system works in EASE".

The customer didn't care about that-the system didn't work in his room.

In this case the consultant spent only about 1-2 hrs in the room doing the "alignment".  This was around a 1500 seat room and he was attempting (not very well) to do beam steering and such in a wrap around room.  It did not work.

So did he actually LISTEN to his work-or just make some noise and rush out to grab his return flight?  The later is the case-because there is no way he could call himself an audio professional and say that the job he just did was even remotely "decent".

We went in and removed his work-rehung the loudspeakers in the proper place-realigned-rewired the amp rack and the customer has been happy.

I have seen jobs from very well known designers that are just plain bad.  But they like to copy/paste and just run the work through the door and get paid-no caring if the system actually works properly for the customer.

It really is sad how low the quality of work often is in our industry-especially with all the different loudspeaker tools we now have available-the measurement tools-the knowledge base/training available and so forth.

I say it all the time-we have a lot of STUPID people doing audio.  Yes- there are a good number who really do care-and who "get it", but there are still a lot of just plain stupid people who have no business attempting to do what they do.

Put down the cable and step away from the loudspeaker and nobody gets hurt.
Logged
A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Brad Walker

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1
Re: what in the world are they thinking ?
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2011, 08:58:30 pm »

Tom said:
There is DSP. However there is no indication that it is employed to vary the coverage pattern. The coverage pattern is stated as 7V x 100H. And the published polars support this. Period.

Brad Walker replies:
And you can't overcome the physics of small line arrays with DSP when you lay it on its side - unless you have an out of whack aesthetics gland that occasionally goes into reality override mode  ::)  Seriously, that's a disappointing smudge on my view of the K-Array folks.

Obi-Wan: These aren't the droids you're looking for.
Stormtrooper: These aren't the droids we're looking for.
Obi-Wan: He can go about his business.
Stormtrooper: You can go about your business.
Obi-Wan: Move along.
Stormtrooper: Move along... move along.
Logged

Peter Morris

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1259
Re: what in the world are they thinking ?
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2011, 06:35:23 am »

I am hunting down some speakers for an unusual installation project and checked the K-Array website. I have heard their column speakers a few times and think they're contenders for/in that market.

But the leading headline on their website really disturbs me. See:

http://www.k-array.net/

and the top NEWS story: "A Beautiful Front-fill".

In this news item a sound guy has chosen a fairly long column speaker as a *front fill* speaker in larger theaters.

specs: http://www.k-array.net/downloads/karray/datasheet/KR200S_data_B.pdf

So just to be clear: there is a need to cover across the front seats and the sound dude choose a speaker, which when laid on its side, has 7-degrees horizontal coverage directly on axis to the center of the column. How does this cover more than (say) 3-5 seats with HF and upper MF energy ?

OK, OK. Egregious errors by marketing folks are nothing new in the pro audio market/press and elsewhere. We all know that.

But think about what this does to the basic understanding of electroaocustics for the novice who reads this stuff.

And (equally troubling).... how did the sound dude not notice the lack of HF coverage across the front seats ?

This is not the first time I have seen a column speaker deployed in such a flawed manner. But I find it startling, disturbing and disconcerting to see this on the front page of a pro audio speaker manufacturer's website.

end of rant

Hi Tom

They can be configured as 7 degrees or 120 degrees vertical - see page 4 of the manual

http://www.k-array.net/downloads/karray/documents/kk50vb_manual_09_eng_rev01.pdf

Regards

Peter
« Last Edit: May 29, 2011, 08:30:42 am by Peter Morris »
Logged

kristianjohnsen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1063
  • Lillehammer, Norway
    • Lillehammer Lyd og Lys
Re: what in the world are they thinking ?
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2011, 07:32:50 am »

I am hunting down some speakers for an unusual installation project and checked the K-Array website. I have heard their column speakers a few times and think they're contenders for/in that market.

But the leading headline on their website really disturbs me. See:

http://www.k-array.net/

and the top NEWS story: "A Beautiful Front-fill".

In this news item a sound guy has chosen a fairly long column speaker as a *front fill* speaker in larger theaters.

specs: http://www.k-array.net/downloads/karray/datasheet/KR200S_data_B.pdf

So just to be clear: there is a need to cover across the front seats and the sound dude choose a speaker, which when laid on its side, has 7-degrees horizontal coverage directly on axis to the center of the column. How does this cover more than (say) 3-5 seats with HF and upper MF energy ?

OK, OK. Egregious errors by marketing folks are nothing new in the pro audio market/press and elsewhere. We all know that.

But think about what this does to the basic understanding of electroaocustics for the novice who reads this stuff.

And (equally troubling).... how did the sound dude not notice the lack of HF coverage across the front seats ?

This is not the first time I have seen a column speaker deployed in such a flawed manner. But I find it startling, disturbing and disconcerting to see this on the front page of a pro audio speaker manufacturer's website.

end of rant

Hi Tom

They can be configured as 7 degrees or 120 degree vertical - see page 4 of the manual

http://www.k-array.net/downloads/karray/documents/kk50vb_manual_09_eng_rev01.pdf

Regards

Peter


First of all:  That's very cool!

Second:  Somebody has a foot in his mouth...
Logged

Tom Young

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 620
Re: what in the world are they thinking ?
« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2011, 11:15:34 am »

Hi Tom

They can be configured as 7 degrees or 120 degree vertical - see page 4 of the manual

http://www.k-array.net/downloads/karray/documents/kk50vb_manual_09_eng_rev01.pdf

Regards

Peter



First of all:  That's very cool!

Second:  Somebody has a foot in his mouth...

Let me know how they both taste..... YOUR foot and a generous helping of humble pie  ;)

Did it ever occur to you that I actually took the time to read through the News article, then the spec sheets, before I publicly called these folks to task ?

I suspect that others here may also have taken the time to double-check to make sure I was on track, or not. You obviously did not.

Your bad.

Perhaps, in the future, you might not be so fast on the trigger.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2011, 11:53:39 am by Tom Young »
Logged
Tom Young
Electroacoustic Design Services
Oxford CT
203-888-6217

Tom Young

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 620
Re: what in the world are they thinking ?
« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2011, 11:39:00 am »

Hi Tom

They can be configured as 7 degrees or 120 degrees vertical - see page 4 of the manual

http://www.k-array.net/downloads/karray/documents/kk50vb_manual_09_eng_rev01.pdf

Regards

Peter

Peter-

Please read the referenced News article again. Nowhere is the KK50vb mentioned.

There are two devices cited and neither of them provides switchable coverage.

Had only the KK50 been mentioned I probably would have found the KK50vb and crossed this off as simply a case of poor reporting and editing (dropping the suffix).

But if you actually READ the News article and look at the specs for the two cited devices you would also (I believe) logically conclude that they do not know what they are talking about. "They" apparently being the user/operator and the marketing person who wrote this piece.

I am not in the habit of taking folks to task on public forums. On the few occasions where I have, I have been very careful to (first of all) not cast aspersions against an innocent party and (secondly) to not be proven wrong or foolish.

In the process of achieving these two goals I read what was available about the two referenced devices. It would not surprise me if some of the folks here who seem to agree with my conclusion also did a little bit of homerwork first, before replying to my post.

The bottom line is that I stand by what I posted.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2011, 11:56:58 am by Tom Young »
Logged
Tom Young
Electroacoustic Design Services
Oxford CT
203-888-6217

Robert Lunceford

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 381
Re: what in the world are they thinking ?
« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2011, 01:14:29 pm »

16 K-Array KK100S used as stage monitor system.

Logged

Robert Lunceford

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 381
Re: what in the world are they thinking ?
« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2011, 01:30:16 pm »

K-Array KR200S used as stage monitors.

Logged

Brian Lloyd

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3
Re: what in the world are they thinking ?
« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2011, 02:17:51 pm »

i used the R/H version of these...far from painless. we used 2 pieces per side and 1 sub unit per side to fill a 800 seat hall. they were SO bright we had to cut so much out to compensate that it just sounded horrible. those had the ability to do the DSP but you had to use a network computer to do it. i was hoping for so much more.
Logged

Mac Kerr

  • Old enough to know better
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6508
  • Audio Plumber
Re: what in the world are they thinking ?
« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2011, 02:24:39 pm »

16 K-Array KK100S used as stage monitor system.

As misguided as the front fill idea may have been, it pales in relation to this. Concave arrays used within the focal point of the array are not a good idea.

Mac
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 6   Go Up
 


Page created in 0.058 seconds with 23 queries.