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Author Topic: Show wide networking help  (Read 7552 times)

Tom Reid

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Re: Show wide networking help
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2011, 02:00:37 pm »


 
I agree with you Tom. Mac pushed in the right direction I believe with his statement that "I think technologies like Dante and AES50 will lead the way, although there are few products out there yet that meet my needs."
 
However, the problems encountered with any of these systems will be the ability to function with off the shelf hardware. I saw Cisco mentioned, but I can't help feel that Cisco was mentioned or recommended by the manufacturer simply because Cisco is a leader, or the leader, in connectivity products. So a few BASIC definitions for those still playing along.
 
HUB - A dumb switch used to tie devices utilizing the same protocol together. If you wanted to seperate your hosts from the main house network you might use a........
 
Switch - A smart HUB. Switches can be segmented to create virtual LANs. An example would be 6 ports for the network 192.168.10.x (class C mask), and the next 6 ports for the network 192.168.20.x (class C mask). Neither will talk to the other unless you are routed from one network to the other by an intelligent device called a ...........
 
Router used to tie either local or wide area networks together. Router basics dictate that once your network (192.168.10.x) has been searched and an address on the 192.168.20.x has not been located, the packet will then be routed to and through the gateway specifide by your IP address. Usually .1.
 
Once your packet has found it's way to the network requested it will continue to search until the specific address is found. That address may be on the other side of a.....
 
Bridge. The reason the bridge exists can be for one of two reasons. In the case where extreme fault tolerence is required you might deploy spanning tree protocol using two (2) backbones. Should one backbone fail the bridges will direct, not route, the network traffic through the backup path. Or in the case of a very busy network the bridges may decide to direct traffic through all available paths.
 
A bridge is also quite often used to join dissimilar topologies and translate protocols, I.E. Ethernet to Token Ring.
 
Finally lets not confuse the need to route packets with the need to forward packets. A simple network for an FOH system could consist of little more than up to 382' of CAT6 cable, two (2) hubs, and a WAP (wireless access point).
 
Have great day gentlemen.

My original error was in using an example that didn't fit the definition.  The key is a translation of protocols, which clearly an Ethernet to USB device does not do, instead it takes Ethernet and sorts out the VID (USB virtual ID) from the IP stream  to command serial I/O devices.  In basic definition, that is a terminal server.

Interesting tidbit about spanning tree protocol, I remember when Cisco released the first updates for AGS+ and MGS routers to allow spanning tree inside the routers across cards. 

Like any complex hardware/software system, there are options and "features" that in you wildest dreams one never thinks they would need.  Especially if you're just trying to send 48X16 pieces of snake info across the crowd.  Step back and look at the system as you would for power drops, com, or any subsystem that maintains your job.  You'll need features.
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Mac Kerr

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Re: Show wide networking help
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2011, 03:26:15 pm »

I agree with you Tom. Mac pushed in the right direction I believe with his statement that "I think technologies like Dante and AES50 will lead the way, although there are few products out there yet that meet my needs."
 
However, the problems encountered with any of these systems will be the ability to function with off the shelf hardware. I saw Cisco mentioned, but I can't help feel that Cisco was mentioned or recommended by the manufacturer simply because Cisco is a leader, or the leader, in connectivity products. So a few BASIC definitions for those still playing along.

A little information from Telos on their recommendations for switches. High speed, high channels count, high reliability audio networks will need robust switches. Telos has chose to support Cisco and HP, but not every switch in their catalogs.

Mac
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Glenn Carolan

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Re: Show wide networking help
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2011, 04:14:28 pm »

For the record - My day job is a networking engineer/admin/consultant and like Ken posted, I was doing VOip years ago.  Being a weekend warrior I don't normally get ethernet audio, so I haven't mixed the two much.  At work we purchased mostly all Cisco equipment, but I have experience with most other brands as well.  (we do not sell anything)

It sounds like you will at least need one manageable switch @ stage for amps and mon console and one manageable switch @ FOH for processing, monitoring, etc. 

You can either plan to run an ethernet crossover cable from Stage Switch to FOH Switch; Or if you want to make that connection wireless you will require a wireless router for one end and a bridge for the other end/or switch. 

Once you get or do the wireless router part you can connect any wireless device to your network, e.g. laptop, laptops, for monitoring and control throughout the venue etc.  I personally don't know of audio processing, or amps, etc that are wireless capable 'yet'.

Concerning wireless, wireless connections can travel a good distance depending on obstructions or radio freq interference - which I wouldn't think there would be much between FOH and Stage especially if it's all elevated above the crowd.  802.11b or 802.11g is about 300 feet outdoors = no walls.

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Henry Cohen

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Re: Show wide networking help
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2011, 04:18:44 pm »

My thought it to have one main router with a hugh gain antenna in FOH computer rack that connects via ethernet to system processing, FOH console, and anything else at FOH. THe part I am wondering about is amp racks and monitor world stuff. I would prefer not to run cat5e to everything if possible. Is there some type of wireless unit that i can put in all of the amp racks and monitor console that will connect to the wireless network already established?

I question the application of a wireless interface here. Every rack you mentioned requires a hardwire connection of the audio signal, which presumably originates at the stage, goes to FOH, and finally to the amp racks and/or powered speakers. Is it really that much of an inconvenience to bundle in a CAT5e/6 or two along with the audio snake and drive lines? It'll be infinitely more robust and reliable than an RF link. And let's not forget a "hugh gain antenna" will be an unsightly visual obstruction at FOH for audience members, and a great way to pull in intereferring signals farther away. Leave the one wireless link to that of the tablet with which you walk the room.

Additionally, with digital snakes and their accompanying end point interfaces, we're beginning to see built-in Ethernet connectivity (Opticore comes to mind).
« Last Edit: January 20, 2011, 04:35:29 pm by Henry Cohen »
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Henry Cohen

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Justice C. Bigler

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Re: Show wide networking help
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2011, 05:49:44 pm »

I was going to post a similar response to Henry. Run a CAT 5 or two with your drive snakes to everything that you don't absolutely need wireless on. Use the wireless for either the console remote, or system processor remote so you can walk the room/stage. With all the other RF goings on (wireless mics, wireless IEM, wireless coms, two-way radios, cell phones, WiFi, wireless ticket scanners, wireless DMX, wireless assisted listening systems, etc etc etc) there's just way too much shit going on to have everything set up on wireless.

If you need more than just one or two Cat 5, Wireworks has multipin disconnect with 6 or 12 channels of Cat 5e, all in one bundle.
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Bob Leonard

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Re: Show wide networking help
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2011, 08:43:49 pm »

A little information from Telos on their recommendations for switches. High speed, high channels count, high reliability audio networks will need robust switches. Telos has chose to support Cisco and HP, but not every switch in their catalogs.

Mac

Mac,
 
We could open a studio starting with a pair of 4500 series switches and expand from there. I would be pretty sure there will be no bandwidth issues to contend with. I'm not an HP fan, although many of my first networks were built around HP devices.
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BOSTON STRONG........
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