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Author Topic: Anybody know Smaart that can help me out?  (Read 3768 times)

Josh Billings

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Anybody know Smaart that can help me out?
« on: May 18, 2011, 06:16:39 pm »

I've been trying to figure out how to align my speakers (delay) with Smaart and get the phase response down.

I've attached a picture of how the speakers are setup and the club and maybe you guys can give me some pointers on how to get this setup. Which speakers should i look to be delaying (Keep in mind there is 5-6 ms of delay with the subs since they are horns). Should i split the stack of subs? It sounds good in the club, but i want it to be as good as it can possibly be.

I can adjust the phase via 0-180 degrees and I can invert the phase via my processor along with plenty of delay to do whatever I need to do.

Every time I do a phase trace in smart the lines are just all over the place and don't make any sense. It looks nothing like this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJ21s-NbKtg&feature=player_detailpage#t=42s



It's basically an install (we move the subs in and out every week, but everything else stays up and the subs stay in the same place. I just want to get this dialed in RIGHT and have it as perfect as possible.

-Josh Billings
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Douglas R. Allen

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Re: Anybody know Smaart that can help me out?
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2011, 05:35:36 am »


Josh;
Post your location. Maybe there is someone close to you who can give you a hand.
As the system sits now you don't want the speakers on the right turned on when your doing an alignment.
Also post some screen shots of your phase traces.
It looks like the subs are together in one location.
This is good for less phase issues but this gives you some problems as well. Which top box do you align the sub system to and where do you do the alignment?
If you split the subs up how does it effect the subs coverage in the room?

I'd split the subs up first and try it. If the bass is no longer going to cover well then put them back together.
If you have to have the subs together Align the subs and tops on the left first with the right speakers off. (Looks like the subs are in front quite a bit by your diagram so they may need the delay. Do a long delay locator to each box one at a time first to see)  That done now with the left speaker off leave your mic in the same spot and tweek the delay of the right speaker so its crossover phase sits with the subs at the crossover point. The speaker on the right may be 3 or more cycles behind but you can still get them to be better in phase at the crossover. Again this will be at a spot you pick. ( All of this is hard to say for sure as there is no measurements in your diagram. The top speakers could be 10 feet apart or 100? )

This is kind of a Pick a Spot and align kind of room.

Have any pictures?

Douglas R. Allen


 

« Last Edit: May 19, 2011, 05:38:23 am by Douglas R. Allen »
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Brad Weber

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Re: Anybody know Smaart that can help me out?
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2011, 01:54:37 pm »

Just to add to Douglas' comments, it is generally much easier to align one source to one other source than to try to align four different sources all at once.  And especially with a configuration like that shown, alignment at any single location may not translate to all of the other potential listener locations.
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Josh Billings

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Re: Anybody know Smaart that can help me out?
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2011, 07:29:47 pm »

Josh;
I'd split the subs up first and try it. If the bass is no longer going to cover well then put them back together.
If you have to have the subs together Align the subs and tops on the left first with the right speakers off. (Looks like the subs are in front quite a bit by your diagram so they may need the delay. Do a long delay locator to each box one at a time first to see)  That done now with the left speaker off leave your mic in the same spot and tweek the delay of the right speaker so its crossover phase sits with the subs at the crossover point. The speaker on the right may be 3 or more cycles behind but you can still get them to be better in phase at the crossover. Again this will be at a spot you pick. ( All of this is hard to say for sure as there is no measurements in your diagram. The top speakers could be 10 feet apart or 100? )

I haven't tried splitting the subs up, but I am contemplating putting the subs on the right side of the room in that gap there along the wall. I figure it might give more coverage for the dance floor.

When you say do a "long delay locator" that's the "Auto Lg" button right? Should i be running pink noise through just the 15s on the DC2s and then all the subs at once? Pink noise is the right thing to use right? Not like a sine wave or anything? So basically when i run the Auto Lg button on each speaker (Left DC2, Right DC2 and the DCS2s) should i just write those numbers down in milliseconds and then plug the difference in as delay on my DSP?

I really do want the best sounding setup possible here, but I don't have a lot of options either :/

Josh Billings
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Douglas R. Allen

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Re: Anybody know Smaart that can help me out?
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2011, 03:30:06 pm »

I did this as a "very basic" starting point a few years ago.. Just something to look at. There may be something for you to use as far as smaart settings and a basic starting points on page 2.
Again your tops may be back in time and delay may be needed in your subs. If so do a capture of your tops first then add delay to your subs so their phase trace sits on your top phase trace "at" the crossover point.

The settings were for subs to lowmids or in a sub/top setup. Not for mids to horns.

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/showthread.php?2264387-Sub-Mid-DEMO&highlight=dookietwo

Yes use Pink noise. Just one sub. Then one top or mid. Is your system triamped or biamped?

Douglas R. Allen
« Last Edit: May 20, 2011, 03:32:25 pm by Douglas R. Allen »
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Douglas R. Allen

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Re: Anybody know Smaart that can help me out?
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2011, 03:42:28 pm »

Few things here as well.

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/showthread.php?2262411-Time-Delay-and-Phase-Align-of-System&highlight=zbad55

Again not exact just some basic starting points. Maybe some ideas for you.

Douglas R. Allen
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Anybody know Smaart that can help me out?
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2011, 03:42:28 pm »


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