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Author Topic: Yamaha PM1D questions  (Read 14378 times)

Andrew Makinson

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Re: Yamaha PM1D questions
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2011, 01:53:06 pm »

There are very few consoles today that do what a PM1D can. It is not outdated, just out of production. The benefits are 112 inputs with 48 mono and 4 stereo faders on each layer, 48 mix buses with 24 encoders on each layer, 24 matrixes, 12 DCAs, flexible IO, The disadvantages are it is more complex, there are more connections to fail, it is bigger and heavier.

+1  I'm a big fan of the Pm1d.  I flew to a church twice last month to cover services for them.  It had been about eight months since I'd been on a 1d and what a pleasure it was. 

The disadvantages that Mac listed are to be considered.  I've had phenomenal service from Yamaha when I've had issues.  Only issues in 6 years (for an install) were i/o cards needing to be re-seated a few times and a HPF issue on one channel that required a new control card.  I did have to reboot a few times when the screen didn't come on at first.  We also did the standard internal battery and memory replacement.

There are indeed two talkback inputs on the surface.  On is on top and one on the back.  They can be used at the same time. 

Hope that helps.
-- Andrew
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Andrew Makinson
Grace Covenant Church
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kristianjohnsen

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Re: Yamaha PM1D questions
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2011, 03:55:14 am »

There are very few consoles today that do what a PM1D can. It is not outdated, just out of production. The benefits are 112 inputs with 48 mono and 4 stereo faders on each layer, 48 mix buses with 24 encoders on each layer, 24 matrixes, 12 DCAs, flexible IO, The disadvantages are it is more complex, there are more connections to fail, it is bigger and heavier.

+1  I'm a big fan of the Pm1d.  I flew to a church twice last month to cover services for them.  It had been about eight months since I'd been on a 1d and what a pleasure it was. 

The disadvantages that Mac listed are to be considered.  I've had phenomenal service from Yamaha when I've had issues.  Only issues in 6 years (for an install) were i/o cards needing to be re-seated a few times and a HPF issue on one channel that required a new control card.  I did have to reboot a few times when the screen didn't come on at first.  We also did the standard internal battery and memory replacement.

There are indeed two talkback inputs on the surface.  On is on top and one on the back.  They can be used at the same time. 

Hope that helps.
-- Andrew

Andrew.  It certainly does!  Thank you for your time.
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kristianjohnsen

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Re: Yamaha PM1D questions
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2011, 04:03:58 am »

Is my understanding correct that the AI8 boxes have preamp cards installed directly in them?  So it's not like you need external remoteable pres in addition?

Is there a mic-level talback input associated with the surface?

Roughly how big a cable bundle would one expect between the surface and the DSP and between the DSP and the I/O-boxes (can you compare it to a analoge snake)?

Does controlling the PM1D with a DM 2000 use any processing power from the DM 2000, or could it still handle all it's onboard I/Os separately from what it is doing with the PM1D editor?

The analog input frames take eight 4ch input cards which include remote controlled mic pres.

I don't remember about talk back, I think there may be 2.

If you are only running a single cable to the CS1 you have a 32pr, two coax, and power. It scales up from there.

I don't know if you can use the DM2k as a console while it is being used as a remote control for a PM1D. There is no PM1D audio in it, only midi control.

Mac

Gotcha on the I/Os - thanks!

About the remote control from a DM2K:

Do you know if it it possible to control the DSP1D via Studio manager from a DM2K while the CS1 is also attached to it?  What I have in mind is setting up Studio Manager in such a fashion that whatever SM does interferes as little as possible with what's going on, on the CS1 - puropse being monitors and FOH from separate positions, each with a physical console, but only one "mixer brain".

The system has more channels than I need, so each input could easily be routed to two channels on the console, one for FOH and one for MON - it's just a question of being able to control what one wants without interfering with the other guy.
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Mac Kerr

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Re: Yamaha PM1D questions
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2011, 02:36:59 pm »

Gotcha on the I/Os - thanks!

About the remote control from a DM2K:

Do you know if it it possible to control the DSP1D via Studio manager from a DM2K while the CS1 is also attached to it?  What I have in mind is setting up Studio Manager in such a fashion that whatever SM does interferes as little as possible with what's going on, on the CS1 - puropse being monitors and FOH from separate positions, each with a physical console, but only one "mixer brain".

The system has more channels than I need, so each input could easily be routed to two channels on the console, one for FOH and one for MON - it's just a question of being able to control what one wants without interfering with the other guy.

It's a small point, but there is no such thing as "Studio Manager" in PM1D land. The PM1D Editor is its own environment, and is not part of the SM family.

Yes, you can control the PM1D with PM1D Editor while also controlling it from the surface. If you are using less than 48+4stereo inputs the easy solution is to double assign to the 2 layers and have 2 full consoles. The difficulty comes in accessing the parts of the console that refer to one channel at a time. If you and the mixer both try to access the channel eq, one of you is going to get screwed. If he selects a channel, then goes to make a change, and you select a channel between those 2 events, he is going to be changing your channel, not his. There can only be one channel selected at a time, so it is possible to have dual control, but it may not be what you hoped for.

It might be less disruptive and confusing to put his 48 channels on the 2 layers of the left side of the console, and your 48 channels on the 2 layers of the right side of the console. There is still the problem of only one channel selected at a time, but you are each more aware of what the other is doing because you are standing next to each other fighting for access to the encoders.. It is possible to set up the surface so the layers switch independently left and right. It is also possible for one of you to be working on an input channel while the other works on an output channel, but again, it is not as seamless as I am sure you are hoping.

Mac
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kristianjohnsen

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Re: Yamaha PM1D questions
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2011, 09:58:44 am »

Gotcha on the I/Os - thanks!

About the remote control from a DM2K:

Do you know if it it possible to control the DSP1D via Studio manager from a DM2K while the CS1 is also attached to it?  What I have in mind is setting up Studio Manager in such a fashion that whatever SM does interferes as little as possible with what's going on, on the CS1 - puropse being monitors and FOH from separate positions, each with a physical console, but only one "mixer brain".

The system has more channels than I need, so each input could easily be routed to two channels on the console, one for FOH and one for MON - it's just a question of being able to control what one wants without interfering with the other guy.

It's a small point, but there is no such thing as "Studio Manager" in PM1D land. The PM1D Editor is its own environment, and is not part of the SM family.

Yes, you can control the PM1D with PM1D Editor while also controlling it from the surface. If you are using less than 48+4stereo inputs the easy solution is to double assign to the 2 layers and have 2 full consoles. The difficulty comes in accessing the parts of the console that refer to one channel at a time. If you and the mixer both try to access the channel eq, one of you is going to get screwed. If he selects a channel, then goes to make a change, and you select a channel between those 2 events, he is going to be changing your channel, not his. There can only be one channel selected at a time, so it is possible to have dual control, but it may not be what you hoped for.

It might be less disruptive and confusing to put his 48 channels on the 2 layers of the left side of the console, and your 48 channels on the 2 layers of the right side of the console. There is still the problem of only one channel selected at a time, but you are each more aware of what the other is doing because you are standing next to each other fighting for access to the encoders.. It is possible to set up the surface so the layers switch independently left and right. It is also possible for one of you to be working on an input channel while the other works on an output channel, but again, it is not as seamless as I am sure you are hoping.

Mac

Hello again Mac and thanks again for your help.

As it turns out I have made arrangements to purchase a PM1D and am a little proud that I'll have what I believe to be the only PM1D in all of Norway intended for live concert use!

Regarding controlling the PM1D via my DM 2000 I was dreaming up a scheme where the two consoles could be placed one at FOH and one at mons so that two techs could man these two positions but using the one PM1D "brain".  The selected channel issue, of course, will make this impossible, but I can see myself setting up the "brain" on stage with the DM 2000 and a computer at FOH for one-tech-gigs where I would normally long for that cat 5 snake that I don't have for my DM 2000.  Talkback and CUE will have to be wireless mic and IEM in this case, I suppose.

If you have the time for some more answers I have a few more questions:

Have you ever used the Yamaha/Riedel Artist 1D?  Do you know if they are still for sale?

Who are the PM1D case experts, in your opinion?

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Mac Kerr

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Re: Yamaha PM1D questions
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2011, 01:54:58 pm »

Have you ever used the Yamaha/Riedel Artist 1D?  Do you know if they are still for sale?

Who are the PM1D case experts, in your opinion?

I have not used the Artist 1D, although what I know of the product is impressive. I doubt there was ever enough demand for them for there have to have been a big production run. I expect they were built in small batches, or even 1 at a time. I'm sure they are out of production, although one may come up on the used market, or Riedel may have a system sitting around the office. Having the CS1D, and up to 4 I/O frames with up to 80x80 channels of I/O over a fiber pair vs all that 32pr is pretty attractive. It was a costly option though.

Any quality case company should be able to build a case for a PM1D. It does not need as big a doghouse as most consoles because there is less to plug in, and/or store in the doghouse. It is really only there to keep the few cables you need neat.

The dual mix positions on a single engine is hard to mix on because of the channel selection issue. A possible expansion down the road however might be to add a second DSP engine. Since the AI8 can feed up to 3 DSP engines the digital split is always there if you add a second engine. You can then use the second engine as a second console, controlled by either a laptop, laptop DM2000 combo, or a second CS1.

Mac
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Craig Montgomery

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Re: Yamaha PM1D questions
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2011, 09:23:09 pm »

Wait a minute wait a minute, selected channel issue?

Selecting a channel on the CS1D has no effect on the computer running PM1D Manager, and vice versa.  This would hold true with your DM2000 connected to the computer.  Otherwise, why would they bother?

As long as you've got a PC hooked up to your engine, remote it via wifi with a Tablet PC or Ipad running Windows Remote Desktop.  Now you're having fun!
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Craig Montgomery

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Re: Yamaha PM1D questions
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2011, 09:30:58 pm »

Also-  the system won't work without a CS1D connected to the engine.

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Mac Kerr

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Re: Yamaha PM1D questions
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2011, 09:35:57 pm »

Also-  the system won't work without a CS1D connected to the engine.

This is not true. It will work with just a computer controlling the DSP1.

Mac
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Mac Kerr

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Re: Yamaha PM1D questions
« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2011, 09:41:17 pm »

This would hold true with your DM2000 connected to the computer.  Otherwise, why would they bother?

They would bother because the reason for the mode where you emulate the CS1 with a computer and DM series mixer was to replace the CS1 with a smaller surface, not to create a second control surface.

It has been a while since I tried to make changes on a PM1D from my computer while the operator was mixing the show, but my recollection is that is screwed him up a lot.

Mac
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Re: Yamaha PM1D questions
« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2011, 09:41:17 pm »


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