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Author Topic: Yamaha PM1D questions  (Read 14412 times)

kristianjohnsen

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Yamaha PM1D questions
« on: May 17, 2011, 06:05:15 pm »

Hello.

Could someone talk me through the Yamaha PM1D system?

I understand that there is a control surface, a DSP "brain" and configurable I/O-boxes to help one get the signals in and out of the brain, but the specifics are a little hazy to me and these are some of my questions:

Are the I/O boxes all PM1D-specific or can one use a combination of these and all manners of other stuff connected via mini YGDAI cards?

Any local I/O at the surface (provided the DSP is not at the surface)?

How are the audio and remote signals connected between the units?  What type of cables, etc.

Is the networking part difficult to set up?

Is it correct to say that the PM1D comes as standard with a digital snake of sorts?  To acheive this, is it best to have the DSP unit sitting by the control surface out front or it it better to separate them and keep the I/O units close to the DSP unit?

When controlling the DSP engine from another Yamaha console, how does one access the functions that the smaller control console doesn't otherwise have?

Is the PM1D hopelessly outdated by now?  What would be the benefits and downsides as compared to the PM5D?

I have heard that it was discontinued due to parts shortages, is this a serious issue in terms of future repairs?

Anything you particularly like about the PM1D?

Anything you particularly dislike about the PM1D?

Is the PM1D still "rider friendly" in your area?


Thank you very much in advance for your time.


Kristian Johnsen
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Chris Trupe

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Re: Yamaha PM1D questions
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2011, 07:54:55 pm »

Wow, ummm most of your questions can be answered by going on the Yamaha site and doing some research.  In my opinion it is still a great console, but don't just don't have the time to answer all those questions.  This link should help you immensely, took 10 seconds to google....

http://www.yamahaproaudio.com/products/mixers/pm1d/index.html

Hit up the manual library and everything you could ever want to know is there.

Hope that helps a little. 

Hello.

Could someone talk me through the Yamaha PM1D system?

I understand that there is a control surface, a DSP "brain" and configurable I/O-boxes to help one get the signals in and out of the brain, but the specifics are a little hazy to me and these are some of my questions:

Are the I/O boxes all PM1D-specific or can one use a combination of these and all manners of other stuff connected via mini YGDAI cards?

Any local I/O at the surface (provided the DSP is not at the surface)?

How are the audio and remote signals connected between the units?  What type of cables, etc.

Is the networking part difficult to set up?

Is it correct to say that the PM1D comes as standard with a digital snake of sorts?  To acheive this, is it best to have the DSP unit sitting by the control surface out front or it it better to separate them and keep the I/O units close to the DSP unit?

When controlling the DSP engine from another Yamaha console, how does one access the functions that the smaller control console doesn't otherwise have?

Is the PM1D hopelessly outdated by now?  What would be the benefits and downsides as compared to the PM5D?

I have heard that it was discontinued due to parts shortages, is this a serious issue in terms of future repairs?

Anything you particularly like about the PM1D?

Anything you particularly dislike about the PM1D?

Is the PM1D still "rider friendly" in your area?


Thank you very much in advance for your time.


Kristian Johnsen
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Corbin Prosche

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Re: Yamaha PM1D questions
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2011, 08:37:12 pm »

Hello... We still own two PM1D's so I might be able to help you on this subject.

CS1D is the control surface.
DSP1D is the "brain".
Your I/O can be customized.

I wouldn't believe that you can use the I/O with anything other than the 1D. The PM1D only runs at most 48K. There is some I/O ports on the back of he surface. The cables that connect all the I/O to the brain look like big SCSI cables. We have never networked the consoles. Some guys will run the Studio Manager on their PC through the brain. It does take a 432 connection I believe it is. The memory is a compact flash on a pcmia adapter. Those are getting a bit difficult to find. We utilize two mass connectors instead of the scsi cables. Yes the PM1D is outdated. However for us a regional sound company they are great. Every summer they work all the festivals. Soundcheck in the morning pull the file up and it's there. We've NEVER had one crash or die. Yes many people will say they have that "Yamaha" sound. Well it is made by Ymaha.... We haven't found a engineer yet who is unable to get around on it. So that tells us they are still rider friendly.

Hello.

Could someone talk me through the Yamaha PM1D system?

I understand that there is a control surface, a DSP "brain" and configurable I/O-boxes to help one get the signals in and out of the brain, but the specifics are a little hazy to me and these are some of my questions:

Are the I/O boxes all PM1D-specific or can one use a combination of these and all manners of other stuff connected via mini YGDAI cards?

Any local I/O at the surface (provided the DSP is not at the surface)?

How are the audio and remote signals connected between the units?  What type of cables, etc.

Is the networking part difficult to set up?

Is it correct to say that the PM1D comes as standard with a digital snake of sorts?  To acheive this, is it best to have the DSP unit sitting by the control surface out front or it it better to separate them and keep the I/O units close to the DSP unit?

When controlling the DSP engine from another Yamaha console, how does one access the functions that the smaller control console doesn't otherwise have?

Is the PM1D hopelessly outdated by now?  What would be the benefits and downsides as compared to the PM5D?

I have heard that it was discontinued due to parts shortages, is this a serious issue in terms of future repairs?

Anything you particularly like about the PM1D?

Anything you particularly dislike about the PM1D?

Is the PM1D still "rider friendly" in your area?


Thank you very much in advance for your time.


Kristian Johnsen
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Mac Kerr

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Re: Yamaha PM1D questions
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2011, 10:02:35 pm »

Are the I/O boxes all PM1D-specific or can one use a combination of these and all manners of other stuff connected via mini YGDAI cards?

There are 3 kinds of IO boxes that connect to the DSP1, the AI8 analog input frame, that takes 8 input cards of 4 channels each, the AO8 analog output frame that takes 8 cards of 4 line level outs, and the DIO8 which has 8 MY slots and can be configured as 2 sets of 4 cards. Not all MY cards are compatible with PM1D, but the chart on the Yamaha website will check compatibility.

Quote
Any local I/O at the surface (provided the DSP is not at the surface)?

There are no mic pres in the control surface. There are 2 stereo analog ins, and 6 stereo digital ins, and some analog and digital outs.

Quote
How are the audio and remote signals connected between the units?  What type of cables, etc.

The frames and the control surface all connect to the DSP via the same 68 pin SCSI cables, some touring consoles have adapters to Mass connectors.

Quote
Is the networking part difficult to set up?

No.

Quote
Is it correct to say that the PM1D comes as standard with a digital snake of sorts?  To acheive this, is it best to have the DSP unit sitting by the control surface out front or it it better to separate them and keep the I/O units close to the DSP unit?

Not really. All the connections between components are digital, and the IO frames and the control surface can each be as much as 200m from the DSP, but it is not a single snake in the sense that you have with an analog console.

Quote
When controlling the DSP engine from another Yamaha console, how does one access the functions that the smaller control console doesn't otherwise have?

You can only control PM1D Editor from another console, and it controls the 1D. The missing controls need to be accessed via the Editor. Mostly you can use a DM2000 or DM1000 to control the faders, and however many aux sends the small console has.

Quote
Is the PM1D hopelessly outdated by now?  What would be the benefits and downsides as compared to the PM5D?

There are very few consoles today that do what a PM1D can. It is not outdated, just out of production. The benefits are 112 inputs with 48 mono and 4 stereo faders on each layer, 48 mix buses with 24 encoders on each layer, 24 matrixes, 12 DCAs, flexible IO, The disadvantages are it is more complex, there are more connections to fail, it is bigger and heavier.

Quote
I have heard that it was discontinued due to parts shortages, is this a serious issue in terms of future repairs?

Yamaha has traditionally been very good about maintaining parts inventory after products have been discontinued. I would expect this trend to continue.

Quote
Anything you particularly like about the PM1D?

Anything you particularly dislike about the PM1D?

Is the PM1D still "rider friendly" in your area?

I like everything I listed as an advantage, there is very little I don't like. It is still rider friendly, and still a "go to" console on big shows.

Mac
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kristianjohnsen

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Re: Yamaha PM1D questions
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2011, 05:45:19 am »

Wow, ummm most of your questions can be answered by going on the Yamaha site and doing some research.  In my opinion it is still a great console, but don't just don't have the time to answer all those questions.  This link should help you immensely, took 10 seconds to google....

http://www.yamahaproaudio.com/products/mixers/pm1d/index.html

Hit up the manual library and everything you could ever want to know is there.

Hope that helps a little. 

Hello.

Could someone talk me through the Yamaha PM1D system?

I understand that there is a control surface, a DSP "brain" and configurable I/O-boxes to help one get the signals in and out of the brain, but the specifics are a little hazy to me and these are some of my questions:

Are the I/O boxes all PM1D-specific or can one use a combination of these and all manners of other stuff connected via mini YGDAI cards?

Any local I/O at the surface (provided the DSP is not at the surface)?

How are the audio and remote signals connected between the units?  What type of cables, etc.

Is the networking part difficult to set up?

Is it correct to say that the PM1D comes as standard with a digital snake of sorts?  To acheive this, is it best to have the DSP unit sitting by the control surface out front or it it better to separate them and keep the I/O units close to the DSP unit?

When controlling the DSP engine from another Yamaha console, how does one access the functions that the smaller control console doesn't otherwise have?

Is the PM1D hopelessly outdated by now?  What would be the benefits and downsides as compared to the PM5D?

I have heard that it was discontinued due to parts shortages, is this a serious issue in terms of future repairs?

Anything you particularly like about the PM1D?

Anything you particularly dislike about the PM1D?

Is the PM1D still "rider friendly" in your area?


Thank you very much in advance for your time.


Kristian Johnsen

Chris, by the time someone is looking at buying something like a PM1D they are pretty much at a level where they have figured out what's at a typical manufacturer's website - I thank you for your suggestions, though.

Frankly, I found the information there a little confusing, and provided that some of the components are PM1D-specific, the fact that I don't have one available to look at in my area, and the reality that there wasn't all that much out on the internet when the console came out - there were som gaps I was hoping to get filled in by real humans (and thankfully, there was).
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kristianjohnsen

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Re: Yamaha PM1D questions
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2011, 05:55:19 am »

Hello... We still own two PM1D's so I might be able to help you on this subject.

CS1D is the control surface.
DSP1D is the "brain".
Your I/O can be customized.

I wouldn't believe that you can use the I/O with anything other than the 1D. The PM1D only runs at most 48K. There is some I/O ports on the back of he surface. The cables that connect all the I/O to the brain look like big SCSI cables. We have never networked the consoles. Some guys will run the Studio Manager on their PC through the brain. It does take a 432 connection I believe it is. The memory is a compact flash on a pcmia adapter. Those are getting a bit difficult to find. We utilize two mass connectors instead of the scsi cables. Yes the PM1D is outdated. However for us a regional sound company they are great. Every summer they work all the festivals. Soundcheck in the morning pull the file up and it's there. We've NEVER had one crash or die. Yes many people will say they have that "Yamaha" sound. Well it is made by Ymaha.... We haven't found a engineer yet who is unable to get around on it. So that tells us they are still rider friendly.

Hello.

Could someone talk me through the Yamaha PM1D system?

I understand that there is a control surface, a DSP "brain" and configurable I/O-boxes to help one get the signals in and out of the brain, but the specifics are a little hazy to me and these are some of my questions:

Are the I/O boxes all PM1D-specific or can one use a combination of these and all manners of other stuff connected via mini YGDAI cards?

Any local I/O at the surface (provided the DSP is not at the surface)?

How are the audio and remote signals connected between the units?  What type of cables, etc.

Is the networking part difficult to set up?

Is it correct to say that the PM1D comes as standard with a digital snake of sorts?  To acheive this, is it best to have the DSP unit sitting by the control surface out front or it it better to separate them and keep the I/O units close to the DSP unit?

When controlling the DSP engine from another Yamaha console, how does one access the functions that the smaller control console doesn't otherwise have?

Is the PM1D hopelessly outdated by now?  What would be the benefits and downsides as compared to the PM5D?

I have heard that it was discontinued due to parts shortages, is this a serious issue in terms of future repairs?

Anything you particularly like about the PM1D?

Anything you particularly dislike about the PM1D?

Is the PM1D still "rider friendly" in your area?


Thank you very much in advance for your time.


Kristian Johnsen

My situation might be similar to yours and I thank you for the information.

Is the "brain" situated by the surface in your case? 

How is the surface>brain cable run compared to the brain>I/O run in terms of ease of connection/pulling/avoiding damage?
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Mac Kerr

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Re: Yamaha PM1D questions
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2011, 06:02:36 am »

There are 3 kinds of IO boxes that connect to the DSP1, the AI8 analog input frame, that takes 8 input cards of 4 channels each, the AO8 analog output frame that takes 8 cards of 4 line level outs, and the DIO8 which has 8 MY slots and can be configured as 2 sets of 4 cards. Not all MY cards are compatible with PM1D, but the chart on the Yamaha website will check compatibility.

I should have clarified this. The DSP1 has 68 pin connectors for ten 32ch input frames, and six 32ch output frames. There are four 68 pin connectors for the CS1. If you are running 2 DSP1 engines in mirror mode so you have online backup you need to run a cable from each DSP1 to each device. The control surface also allows you to run redundant cables, for a total of four 68 pin cables to the surface in the most fully redundant mode. The surface also requires as many as 8 coaxial Ethernet cables. This is all late '90s tech because that is when the console was designed.

If you need more IO at FOH you need to put some sort of frame there, which means a minimum of another 68 pin cable for each frame.

Each input frame has three 68 pin connections so you can do a 3 way digital split to 3 DSP1s. Only one of them controls the mic pre.

Among the disadvantages I should have mentioned that you run a lot of expensive cable with a PM1D. On a theater show where it is expected to sit in one location forever we usually run redundant engines, and redundant cable to FOH. This means four 68 pin and eight coax to FOH for the surface, and 2 more for each IO frame.

Mac
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kristianjohnsen

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Re: Yamaha PM1D questions
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2011, 06:06:26 am »

Are the I/O boxes all PM1D-specific or can one use a combination of these and all manners of other stuff connected via mini YGDAI cards?

There are 3 kinds of IO boxes that connect to the DSP1, the AI8 analog input frame, that takes 8 input cards of 4 channels each, the AO8 analog output frame that takes 8 cards of 4 line level outs, and the DIO8 which has 8 MY slots and can be configured as 2 sets of 4 cards. Not all MY cards are compatible with PM1D, but the chart on the Yamaha website will check compatibility.

Quote
Any local I/O at the surface (provided the DSP is not at the surface)?

There are no mic pres in the control surface. There are 2 stereo analog ins, and 6 stereo digital ins, and some analog and digital outs.

Quote
How are the audio and remote signals connected between the units?  What type of cables, etc.

The frames and the control surface all connect to the DSP via the same 68 pin SCSI cables, some touring consoles have adapters to Mass connectors.

Quote
Is the networking part difficult to set up?

No.

Quote
Is it correct to say that the PM1D comes as standard with a digital snake of sorts?  To acheive this, is it best to have the DSP unit sitting by the control surface out front or it it better to separate them and keep the I/O units close to the DSP unit?

Not really. All the connections between components are digital, and the IO frames and the control surface can each be as much as 200m from the DSP, but it is not a single snake in the sense that you have with an analog console.

Quote
When controlling the DSP engine from another Yamaha console, how does one access the functions that the smaller control console doesn't otherwise have?

You can only control PM1D Editor from another console, and it controls the 1D. The missing controls need to be accessed via the Editor. Mostly you can use a DM2000 or DM1000 to control the faders, and however many aux sends the small console has.

Quote
Is the PM1D hopelessly outdated by now?  What would be the benefits and downsides as compared to the PM5D?

There are very few consoles today that do what a PM1D can. It is not outdated, just out of production. The benefits are 112 inputs with 48 mono and 4 stereo faders on each layer, 48 mix buses with 24 encoders on each layer, 24 matrixes, 12 DCAs, flexible IO, The disadvantages are it is more complex, there are more connections to fail, it is bigger and heavier.

Quote
I have heard that it was discontinued due to parts shortages, is this a serious issue in terms of future repairs?

Yamaha has traditionally been very good about maintaining parts inventory after products have been discontinued. I would expect this trend to continue.

Quote
Anything you particularly like about the PM1D?

Anything you particularly dislike about the PM1D?

Is the PM1D still "rider friendly" in your area?

I like everything I listed as an advantage, there is very little I don't like. It is still rider friendly, and still a "go to" console on big shows.

Mac

Mac.

Thank you, I was hoping you'd chime in!

I have some follow-ups, hoping you have some more time!:) :

Is my understanding correct that the AI8 boxes have preamp cards installed directly in them?  So it's not like you need external remoteable pres in addition?

Is there a mic-level talback input associated with the surface?

Roughly how big a cable bundle would one expect between the surface and the DSP and between the DSP and the I/O-boxes (can you compare it to a analoge snake)?

Does controlling the PM1D with a DM 2000 use any processing power from the DM 2000, or could it still handle all it's onboard I/Os separately from what it is doing with the PM1D editor?



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Mac Kerr

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Re: Yamaha PM1D questions
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2011, 06:08:49 am »

My situation might be similar to yours and I thank you for the information.

Is the "brain" situated by the surface in your case? 

How is the surface>brain cable run compared to the brain>I/O run in terms of ease of connection/pulling/avoiding damage?

Unless the IO frames are also at FOH the DSP engine should be on stage. At a minimum you will have 2 input frames and 1 output frame, and 1 surface cable. That is 3 big cables between the DSP and IO, and 1 between the DSP and control surface.

Mac
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Mac Kerr

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Re: Yamaha PM1D questions
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2011, 06:16:54 am »

Is my understanding correct that the AI8 boxes have preamp cards installed directly in them?  So it's not like you need external remoteable pres in addition?

Is there a mic-level talback input associated with the surface?

Roughly how big a cable bundle would one expect between the surface and the DSP and between the DSP and the I/O-boxes (can you compare it to a analoge snake)?

Does controlling the PM1D with a DM 2000 use any processing power from the DM 2000, or could it still handle all it's onboard I/Os separately from what it is doing with the PM1D editor?

The analog input frames take eight 4ch input cards which include remote controlled mic pres.

I don't remember about talk back, I think there may be 2.

If you are only running a single cable to the CS1 you have a 32pr, two coax, and power. It scales up from there.

I don't know if you can use the DM2k as a console while it is being used as a remote control for a PM1D. There is no PM1D audio in it, only midi control.

Mac
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Yamaha PM1D questions
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2011, 06:16:54 am »


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