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[Gordon Brinton]

Hello Folks:
I am hoping to get some recommendations for a sound reinforcement system.  Budget, 7-8K USD.

We are a 4-piece classic R&R band (Drums, two guitars and bass).   The three front guitarists can share one monitor mix with minimal instrumentation but strong vocal mix.  Drummer needs second mix to include strong instrumentation and vocal mix.

Largest indoor venue would probably be in the 6000 sq foot range.  If we do anything larger, we would hire out a sound person with a system, or the venue would provide sound (we would hope).

Would like to configure with an unpowered board and passive mains and monitors.  Each member is responsible for their own instrument and vocal mics, although we will be using Shure SM58s for all vocals, SM57s for the two guitarists and the bass musician has a XLR direct output that would go to the board.  The drummer is somewhat of a hard hitter, so we will be using a couple of overhead condenser mics and a Shure Beta 52A for the kick.

We want to rack mount all components for convenience.  For now, we will be running the sound from the stage.  We have looked at an Allen & Heath MixWizard 3 16:2 board and an SKB Roto Rig for components and board.

I would appreciate feedback and recommendations.

4000 square feet is a small room. If that room includes tables and a dance floor, your crowds are likely to be less than 300.

Consider this...
- If the drummer is a hard hitter you do not need to mic the drums in a room that small. (Why make the loudest instrument even louder?)
- You don't need to mic or DI the bass in a room that small. (Bass develops heavily out in the middle of the room and creates standing waves.)
- If the drummer cannot hear the other instruments, either he is too loud or everyone is too loud.
- If everyone is too loud, you may not need to mic the guitars either.

My advice: Get the band under control before you throw $7000 at it to make everything twice as loud.

[Steve Tremayne]

4000 square feet is a small room. If that room includes tables and a dance floor, your crowds are likely to be less than 300.

Consider this...
- If the drummer is a hard hitter you do not need to mic the drums in a room that small. (Why make the loudest instrument even louder?)
- You don't need to mic or DI the bass in a room that small. (Bass develops heavily out in the middle of the room and creates standing waves.)
- If the drummer cannot hear the other instruments, either he is too loud or everyone is too loud.
- If everyone is too loud, you may not need to mic the guitars either.

Good points.  Let me throw this out:  I read that a good rule of thumb is to consider 8 watts of power per person.  So if you are in a venue holding 200 people, you should consider a total of 1600 watts worth of speaker-amplification.  Does this sound reasonable?  I wonder if this calculation considers mains and subs together?

[Russel Murton]

Good points.  Let me throw this out:  I read that a good rule of thumb is to consider 8 watts of power per person.  So if you are in a venue holding 200 people, you should consider a total of 1600 watts worth of speaker-amplification.  Does this sound reasonable?  I wonder if this calculation considers mains and subs together?

Watts do not equal a loudness measurement. Decide how loud you want to get in the size rooms you play in and for how many people. We have a good idea how many people can be covered with options within your budget.

I.e. I'd reccommend a bigger system for 150 people in a 4000sqft room for a metal band compared to an indy rock band.

For that number of people (100-200) I'd be looking at a pair of DSR112's and a pair of the matching subs. Add a Presonus StudioLive 16:4:2, 3 MSR400's (Or DSR112's if you can splash out and want to future proof) and a DSR115 for drums.

That system should easily cover most small venues for a band running their own sound. Anything larger than that system I would be wanting a dedicated sound operator to control the system out infront.

[Steve Tremayne]

Add a Presonus StudioLive 16:4:2

This mixer keeps coming up.  It's expensive but it appears to cover all bases.  It will handle all EQs and multiple monitor mixes - at least 4, maybe more?

[Brad Weber]

Good points.  Let me throw this out:  I read that a good rule of thumb is to consider 8 watts of power per person.  So if you are in a venue holding 200 people, you should consider a total of 1600 watts worth of speaker-amplification.  Does this sound reasonable?  I wonder if this calculation considers mains and subs together?

This has been discussed many times and the bottom line is that a watts per person number has virtually no relevance to the actual system performance and is a poor basis for any decisions.  Even if you eliminated variables such as potential differences in venues, musical styles, the effects of stage sound and so on, technical factors such as speaker sensitivity would still make such assumptions invalid.
 
It has been hinted around but some critical considerations are whether you are looking only at new gear or would also consider used gear and whether you need to purchase everything now or can do it over a period of time over which you can look for good deals.

[Bennett Prescott]

Steve,

This comes up fairly frequently, with people working with budget numbers that clearly only take into account a mixer and loudspeakers. I've been managing this Excel spreadsheet for a few years now that gives an excellent starting point. Maybe you want different speakers, maybe you want a different mixer, mics, whatever... it's probably going to cost about this much, and you can see just how much of your money goes into cases and wire.

http://bennettprescott.com/downloads/QD_Bar_Rig.xls

[Steve Tremayne]

Steve,

This comes up fairly frequently, with people working with budget numbers that clearly only take into account a mixer and loudspeakers. I've been managing this Excel spreadsheet for a few years now that gives an excellent starting point. Maybe you want different speakers, maybe you want a different mixer, mics, whatever... it's probably going to cost about this much, and you can see just how much of your money goes into cases and wire.

http://bennettprescott.com/downloads/QD_Bar_Rig.xls

Thanks Bennett.  That is a very informative spreadsheet.  Lots of extra items you just don't consider until you go "what the heck".

[duane massey]

Are are ye a pirate??

What an idiot I am! Late night typing errors bite me again. I meant "What are are you in?"

Duh!!!

[Steve Tremayne]

What an idiot I am! Late night typing errors bite me again. I meant "What are are you in?"

Duh!!!

We are in nothing.  We have rented and borrowed so far.

[duane massey]

We are in nothing.  We have rented and borrowed so far.

What is wrong with me? It was supposed to ask "What AREA are you in?"

I need to start drinking so I'll have an excuse besides old age for these embarrassing moments.

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