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Author Topic: Sound System Recommendation  (Read 20617 times)

Dave Scarlett

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Re: Sound System Recommendation
« Reply #40 on: May 13, 2011, 09:03:33 am »

This might do the job. Eight channels of equalization in a single rack space, Alesis  DEQ 830:
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g'bye, Dick Rees

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Re: Sound System Recommendation
« Reply #41 on: May 13, 2011, 09:26:23 am »

This might do the job. Eight channels of equalization in a single rack space, Alesis  DEQ 830:

1.  Please learn to resize your pictures so they don't expand the pages.  Google "resize pictures on line".

2.  8 channels of GEQ in one space is still GEQ.  Get some parametrics to keep from hacking the spectrum with "too big a hammer".
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Jay Barracato

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Re: Sound System Recommendation
« Reply #42 on: May 13, 2011, 09:32:47 am »

First and foremost, I would like to thank everyone for so much great feedback.  This is the first forum I have been involved with where its membership doesn’t make a newbie like myself feel like an idiot!

Referencing Scott’s feedback above, I would like to keep this thing as simple as possible but I do not want to sacrifice quality which takes me to my next question:

Although the mixer I am looking at (SL 16.4.2) contains a number of great features, there appears to be varying opinions with regards to additional “Speaker Management” systems.  Tabling the EQ debate, the “DriveRack” for speaker optimization keeps weighing on my mind.  “dbx” touts their units as a must for “powered speakers”.   Considering the fact that the PRX’s (per side) would be connected in series, would a DriveRack truly contribute to sound optimization or is this something that should be considered only if necessary?

Outboard eq gives you an another whole level of system control, which you will be thankful for at the first bar that puts the band in front of a plate glass window with 90 db of background noise from the patrons bouncing off of it.

It comes down to the decision of whether you are more comfortable with GEQ or PEQ. I am not a fan of the driverack units, especially the lower end ones in the series. Like DIck I use a Sabine system controller (the navigator) with my powered speaker setup. Mine relies on PEQ. Their other offering gives you both GEQ and PEQ. A similar set of offerings is available from Ashly. I have only used the Alesis DEQ on monitors, but it is quick and easy to setup and use.

I feel that the Studiolive output GEQ is usable, so personally I would be looking for PEQ. However, I do not believe the 16.4.2 has dedicated GEQ for the aux outputs, so a unit like the Alesis might be handy for monitors depending on how comfortable you are with PEQ.
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Jay Barracato

Brad Weber

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Re: Sound System Recommendation
« Reply #43 on: May 13, 2011, 10:52:47 am »

I havent used a Studio Live but before you start spending on EQ's check it out first because I think the mixer has EQ's on the mains and maybe the AUX channels too.
Yes, the SL has a Fat Channel on virtually all of the outputs.  However, it is essentially the same processing as on the inputs and the EQ is a four band, semi-parametric (apparently a fixed bandwidth of Q=0.55 or over two octaves) EQ with the high and low bands able to be switched to be shelving filters.  There is also a limiter but can only be turned on or off, there is no adjustment of threshold (apparently preset at 0dBFS), attack, release or knee.  There is also no delay.  It seems pretty clear that the StudioLive output processing is intended much more for 'sweetening' than to serve as a system processor or loudspeaker management systems.
 
Steve, you may be able to loop through the powered subs and use the internal low and high pass filtering for the crossover.  However, that and whatever procesing the mixer outputs supports would be the extent of the processing for the speakers and control of the relative levels of the sub and mains would be limited to adjusting the level controls on the speakers.
 
The bottom line is that the system will work and you may be able to get acceptable results without any external processing, however you will be limited in what you can do in terms of dealing with problems or optimizing the results.  While not having the best sound you could may be something you could deal with initially and then maybe address in the future, if issues such as gain before feedback for the monitors arise then having limited EQ and processing available could become a much more immediate problem.
 
I think the biggest potential issue may be with monitors.  I really like parametric EQ for monitors, but four bands, or less if you use the high or low band for shelving, of 'semi-parametric' EQ with what is apparently a fairly wide fixed bandwidth may not be the best approach for that purpose.
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Steve Tremayne

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Re: Sound System Recommendation
« Reply #44 on: May 13, 2011, 11:20:25 am »

I think the biggest potential issue may be with monitors.  I really like parametric EQ for monitors, but four bands, or less if you use the high or low band for shelving, of 'semi-parametric' EQ with what is apparently a fairly wide fixed bandwidth may not be the best approach for that purpose.

Brad, thanks for the feedback.  I believe I will approach this by testing the waters on the FOH speakers without additional management and adding some additional form of EQ for the four monitor mixes.  There seems to be quite a pricing disparity from one parametric EQ manufacturer to another.  Close to 1K is out of our range for parametric EQ so I will probably consider a Graphic EQ for the monitors to start with.
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Brian Nelson

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Re: Sound System Recommendation
« Reply #45 on: May 13, 2011, 11:53:31 am »

The Studiolive 16.4.2 will have GEQs on all Aux in the next firmware update, they have said this and updated the online manual (firmware 1.13)

When that firmware is available is anyone's guess.
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Wali Raffiqi

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Re: Sound System Recommendation
« Reply #46 on: May 13, 2011, 07:55:54 pm »

    Speakers are active so I would not need more amplification, just the EQs.  So for the two mains, 2 bands of EQ and one band of EQ for each monitor, correct?  Also, I am looking at a SKB Roto Gig Rig Mixer Rack.[/list]
    Steve,

    I'm not sure how you feel about the look of the plastic on the Gig Rigs, but I hate it. I went with an EWI case from audiopile.net. Technically they are 1 space small (SL is supposed to be 14 and these are 12 space), but they are still deep enough to fit the board in them.

    Doesn't hurt to give them a look:
    http://audiopile.net/products/Cases/CU_series_roadracks/CU-P-22/CU-P-22_series_cutsheet.shtml

    They also have the table combo, which I went with. They are great cases!
    http://audiopile.net/products/Cases/CU_series_roadracks/CUDJ-P-22/CRUDJ-P-22_series_cutsheet.shtml
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    Steve Tremayne

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    Re: Sound System Recommendation
    « Reply #47 on: May 14, 2011, 12:43:06 pm »

    Steve, I'm not sure how you feel about the look of the plastic on the Gig Rigs, but I hate it. I went with an EWI case from audiopile.net. Technically they are 1 space small (SL is supposed to be 14 and these are 12 space), but they are still deep enough to fit the board in them.

    Brian, thanks for the feedback.  I too like the looks of the Audiopile case.  I have been looking at the SL 16.4.2 as well as the Allen & Heath MixWizard 3 16:2.  The Presonus dimension depth from the top rear of the board to the bottom of the “hang-down” (not sure what to call this)  is approximately 6.8” while the A&H Wiz is approximately 7.6”.  Will this case handle the depth of these unites in the rear?  Perhaps the cross-member brace is totally adjustable so this would not be an issue?   I don’t understand your comment:  “Technically they are 1 space small (SL is supposed to be 14 and these are 12 space), but they are still deep enough to fit the board in them.”
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    Wali Raffiqi

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    Re: Sound System Recommendation
    « Reply #48 on: May 14, 2011, 01:10:45 pm »

    Steve,

    Yes the height (6.8") is not the issue, it's the length (or depth) of the board (22.3") that usually matters in a rack case. That is what I also meant by the 14 space, like some gear is say 2U or 4U, the SL16 is "supposed" to be 14U. But from what I've searched around, no one makes a 14U in that style road case, unless it's custom request. BUT, the 12U of the EWI cases are big enough to fit. Odyssey also makes similar cases.

    Here are the pics of my board in the table combo case:


    This is the top brace that I had to move up one (only because the legs of the table top take up the extra room in the lid). I probably didn't need to keep it since the board itself will keep everything intact, but it works great as a handle to grab and pull the board up.


    Here is the bottom fitment: There's about a 1/4" space between the board and the lid. But again, if I hadn't moved the brace up one hole, and I didn't have the legs in the lid, the extra part of the board hanging out of the case would fit just fine inside the lid when everything is closed up.


    The case with the table top attached:
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    Steve Tremayne

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    Re: Sound System Recommendation
    « Reply #49 on: May 14, 2011, 01:35:15 pm »


    Yes the height (6.8") is not the issue, it's the length (or depth) of the board (22.3") that usually matters in a rack case. That is what I also meant by the 14 space, like some gear is say 2U or 4U, the SL16 is "supposed" to be 14U. But from what I've searched around, no one makes a 14U in that style road case, unless it's custom request. BUT, the 12U of the EWI cases are big enough to fit. Odyssey also makes similar cases.


    Visuals speak volumes!  Thanks.  I guess what I now wonder is, must all the cabling and wires, etc., be disconnected before you re-close the case? 
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    ProSoundWeb Community

    Re: Sound System Recommendation
    « Reply #49 on: May 14, 2011, 01:35:15 pm »


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