ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5   Go Down

Author Topic: Need advice in trying to please the keyboardist in FOH  (Read 13162 times)

Gordon Brinton

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 493
  • ID Verified
    • Raw Depth Sound, Harrisburg, PA
Re: Need advice in trying to please the keyboardist in FOH
« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2011, 01:46:30 pm »

I understand why you'd suggest limiting keyboards secretly, but why the admonition against ever limiting monitors? Is the objective to prevent musicians from turning up in an effort to hear themselves through their monitors, and screwing up the FOH sound in the process?

Yes. It can also become a serious problem for vocalists who sing dynamically. Compressed monitors may fool them into thinking they are not singing hard enough. They can end up blowing out their voice trying to get louder because they don't feel the added power coming from the monitors.

Though, compressed vocals do work well for the house speakers. You just need to be aware of where you are routing it to.
Logged
Member since 2005.

Bob Leonard

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6807
  • Boston, MA USA
Re: Need advice in trying to please the keyboardist in FOH
« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2011, 11:16:03 pm »

I understand why you'd suggest limiting keyboards secretly, but why the admonition against ever limiting monitors? Is the objective to prevent musicians from turning up in an effort to hear themselves through their monitors, and screwing up the FOH sound in the process?

Yes. It can also become a serious problem for vocalists who sing dynamically. Compressed monitors may fool them into thinking they are not singing hard enough. They can end up blowing out their voice trying to get louder because they don't feel the added power coming from the monitors.


Think about it. That's not always a bad thing.
Logged
BOSTON STRONG........
Proud Vietnam Veteran

I did a gig for Otis Elevator once. Like every job, it had it's ups and downs.

Jeff Bankston

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2284
Re: Need advice in trying to please the keyboardist in FOH
« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2011, 12:19:17 am »


Think about it. That's not always a bad thing.
[/quote]right now i'm watching the three stooges. woop woop woop woop woop woop woop ! curly !
Logged

Jordan Wolf

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1363
  • Location: Collingswood, NJ
Re: Need advice in trying to please the keyboardist in FOH
« Reply #23 on: May 08, 2011, 03:32:45 am »

I run FOH for a growing cover band...[n]ow the Keyboardist is speaking up because I'm not consistently pushing him at equal level with the rest of the band.
Sounds like your keyboardist has a "more me" problem.  Egos are the hardest things to subdue. ::)

If you and the audience are happy with the overall blend of the group during shows, then (at least on your end) nothing should change from how you are doing it now.  Your job is to ensure that their vision AS A GROUP gets conveyed to their audience.

I would be honest and tell him that you mix his instrument just like the others - when he's got a solo or is leading a song, you keep him in the front of the mix; when he's not playing lead, etc., he stays in the background as a support instrument.

And, as it's your job to control the FOH mix, you let him know that if he won't keep his levels under control, you will.

We had a guitarist at my university that would always turn up after we had him turn down (I know, I know..."so what else is new?").  What did I do to solve this problem, you ask?  I took away his power drop.  He understood me then.  After that, no more problems.  Lesson: let them know you're serious and willing to follow through. (Note: my boss and the rest of the crew backed me up fully on this.  It's very important to have the support of the group you're working with; it can make or break your effort.)
Logged
Jordan Wolf
<><

"We want our sound to go into the soul of the audience, and see if it can awaken some little thing in their minds... Cause there are so many sleeping people." - Jimi Hendrix

Doug Maye

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 91
Re: Need advice in trying to please the keyboardist in FOH
« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2011, 09:57:34 am »

Matt, Does he have an amp on stage?

 
Matt said he was hitting a Hammond pretty hard so I would assume he has plenty of sound on stage from the organ, and maybe a Leslie as well. I have to think Bennetts statement combined with a GF and a huge ego may be the sum total of the problem here. Combine that with a little hearing loss and that equals pain in the ass.
 
If the stage mix is fine but the guitar player can't hear his solos it may just be positioning that is the problem. Push this dude as far left as you can facing across the stage. Look at some old Allman pictures and you'll see what I mean. Put his Leslie(s), if he has any, behind him. Have the guitar player buy a clean boost, a good one, and have him angle his amp up a little if possible. I recommend an Exotic AC for the boost, or a Klon, in that order.



I'm with Bob. If he doesn't have a real Leslie(s), get a powered monitor like a QSC HPR122i or a K12 and put it on a speaker stand at ear level for him. He'll get all the keyboard he needs, and you can mix the band so it sounds good in the room.


What does the keyboard player use to hear himself - IEMs, dedicated keyboard amp, Leslie cabinets and Marshall stacks, or the monitor mix? This may help get you even better answers.
I got a good laugh reading this as it falls into one of those "YMMV" situations. I basically do sound for 3 bands and an occqasionally a 4th. Of them 3 have pianists/keyboardists. Two things that stick out to me are that they are usually one of the best trained musicians as far as lessons/theory go. Secondly, they have poor equiptment at best when it comes to amps/monitors. You can't fight ego's without some sort of compromise. I think they get frustrated a lot because they can't hear themselves, Any of todays decent keyboards have great sounds. Getting that sound to the player is the problem. Until just recently(last 5 years or so) keyboard amps just plain sucked.Today an amp like Traynor's K4 or the Motion labs 500 series fixes that shortcoming. The problem is what they hear. Hell they go 20-20kHZ and are damn loud. A good powered box works well also.
Logged

g'bye, Dick Rees

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7424
  • Duluth
Re: Need advice in trying to please the keyboardist in FOH
« Reply #25 on: May 08, 2011, 12:52:44 pm »

I saw a nice system while travelling in Sweden 20 years ago.  Two powered monitors (nearfield a la studio monitors) which mounted right on extensions fastened to the keyboard stand and aimed back at the player pretty much at head level, being tilted back a tad.  Would seem to be a pretty fair monitor for the player.  Can't seem to find anything via Google, but it shouldn't be hard to rig a similar system.

And speaking as a life-time musician, I would be tempted to say that it is up to the player in a large part to figure out a system for self-monitoring.  Of course I've seen this taken to extremes (one harmonica player in particular) who insist on pointing their monitor at the audience rather than themselves, thereby compounding the "wash" problem......

 
Logged
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain...

Paul Dershem

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 222
  • San Diego, CA
Re: Need advice in trying to please the keyboardist in FOH
« Reply #26 on: May 08, 2011, 02:05:06 pm »

I understand why you'd suggest limiting keyboards secretly, but why the admonition against ever limiting monitors? Is the objective to prevent musicians from turning up in an effort to hear themselves through their monitors, and screwing up the FOH sound in the process?


Yes

Thanks!
Logged
Live without pretending
Love without depending
Listen without defending
Speak without offending.

Steve Hurt

  • Lab Lounge
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 663
Re: Need advice in trying to please the keyboardist in FOH
« Reply #27 on: May 08, 2011, 02:16:27 pm »

I understand why you'd suggest limiting keyboards secretly, but why the admonition against ever limiting monitors? Is the objective to prevent musicians from turning up in an effort to hear themselves through their monitors, and screwing up the FOH sound in the process?

Only thing I don't get is why one would make it a secret that you are compressing the keys in FOH and not in monitors.
 
Different tasks at hand (Monitoring vs. mains) require different methods
I do it to make them more even and audible in the mix. 

Without the compressor, I have to mix for that loudest transient.
By knocking down the loud transients, I can bring up the quiet stuff and more keys get heard.  (which is what they want...to be heard)


Logged

duane massey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1538
Re: Need advice in trying to please the keyboardist in FOH
« Reply #28 on: May 08, 2011, 11:04:40 pm »

If they guy doesn't trust your mix this is not a technical problem but a personal issue. If the problem is his perception of what he sounds like onstage, there have been some good ideas posted. I will never understand musicians who don't grasp the concept of "professional performer=professional gear". I show up at every gig with everything I need to be comfortable onstage, including a small powered submixer and small speaker, 3 DI's, mics for both vocals and trumpet, and all stands, cables, etc, that I need. No one has ever (EVER) asked me to turn down, and I can give the FOH guy anything he wants from my rig (plus I don't need a monitor or mix from him). I consider anything less to be unprofessional.
Logged
Duane Massey
Technician, musician, stubborn old guy
Houston, Texas

Gary A. Perrett

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 36
Re: Need advice in trying to please the keyboardist in FOH
« Reply #29 on: May 09, 2011, 01:04:10 am »

A player that has to be THAT loud on stage is a detriment to the overall mix.. In my situation I have to run 95dBc average.. I have a different band every week, and one with a very deaf keyboard/horn player...he has more power in his monitor rig than the whole house PA!

With JUST his monitor on I'm getting readings of 105dB from his monitor alone! (and it's aimed away from me!!! I have tirelessly lobbied for him to turn down... the band is powerless, and know exactly what I'm going through because they too are inundated by his monitor... (he is the leader) and he HATES IEM's with a passion...

So now, he comes in and sets his monitors to an acceptable volume and then slowly turns it up and up and up all night till it's pealing the paint off the walls...destroying any hope of a reasonable mix...  >:(

Even on a gig where you CAN get loud, a huge stage volume creates a problem for FOH... in my opinion...

G
Logged

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Need advice in trying to please the keyboardist in FOH
« Reply #29 on: May 09, 2011, 01:04:10 am »


Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5   Go Up
 



Page created in 0.07 seconds with 24 queries.