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Author Topic: One Systems Vs. Community  (Read 5462 times)

Ivan Beaver

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Re: One Systems Vs. Community
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2012, 08:15:27 am »

Ivan, I didn't say that it does.  I see how you assumed that because of he preceding sentence, but the point is, we had headroom left.  We all know it's not a wattage control.

Brad, QSC has called it a "gain control" knob for years.  RMX series evn has it labeled as such. Lol.
I would not say "WE ALL"-because that question/statement come up all the time-so I would say that "a large number" of people in the "audio" business don't realize that if you turn the amp down, it can still produce full output.

And turning down the the level control does not give you any more headroom.  So your statement about the control being turned down is pretty much meaningless.  The way it was stated would leave one to believe that you thought that you had more "level left" BECAUSE the the knob was turned down.  The position of the knob has nothing to do with headroom.

And the term "gain" is totally correct, it is a gain knob-that controls the gain from the input to the output of the amplifier.  But I have NEVER seen one that says "wattage" or "output power" on it.
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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Ivan Beaver

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Re: One Systems Vs. Community
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2012, 08:19:46 am »

What gain setting?  The CMX 800V gain is apparently fixed 46X or 33dB gain.  Now the front panel attenuators...
I was refering to the gain setting as a "general" term on amplifiers.  The term "gain" couild also be misused, becuase if you look at the whole amplifier as a "gain unit", then the "control knob" affects the overall gain.

Agreed the "control knob" does not add any gain (per say)in the particular stage it is is (like the feedback loop of an amplifier), but rather controls the overall gain of the amplifer by attenuating the input signal to require more drive voltage to get to full output.
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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Niels Hempel

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Re: One Systems Vs. Community
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2012, 04:23:44 pm »

Ivan,
You are absolutely correct.  Unfortunatly, we didn't measure the input voltage (to the amp), so that specific statement was indeed meaningless.  But we can say that USUALLY full output potential is NOT reached at -24db (amp input attenuation/gain) or so with typical input voltage, and thats what lead me to believe that we were not close to maxing out the headroom on the amp.

Back to the topic... I was pretty impressed with the Crossfield Array. I kinda wish I had one.  My company does a Relay for Life were I send a wireless signal to 4 JBL Eon's to cover the opposite side of the field/track.  If there was an easy way to deploy one closer to the stage, and shoot it at the back half of the field, I wouldn't have so many audio delay issues at mid-field.  The only thing is I worry that with the vertical coverage of my mains that would cause comb filtering issues.

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Niels Hempel
Tri-Tronics Professional Electronics, NC
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: One Systems Vs. Community
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2012, 05:01:14 pm »

Ivan,
You are absolutely correct.  Unfortunatly, we didn't measure the input voltage (to the amp), so that specific statement was indeed meaningless.  But we can say that USUALLY full output potential is NOT reached at -24db (amp input attenuation/gain) or so with typical input voltage, and thats what lead me to believe that we were not close to maxing out the headroom on the amp.

I would be a bit concerned that with 24dB atten on the level control, that the input stage would be overloaded before the output could reach full output.

On some of the pro amps I have measured, once you get to -15 to -20 on the level control, then drive it hard, the input stage clips. 

Of course if you don't drive it hard, it doesn't clip.
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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Brad Weber

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Re: One Systems Vs. Community
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2012, 11:36:35 pm »

Brad, QSC has called it a "gain control" knob for years.  RMX series evn has it labeled as such. Lol.
Some amps do have actual adjustable gain but the controls of the CMX 800V being discussed are labeled "ATTEN" and the manual refers to them as  "Attenuation control" and "attenuation knobs".
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Niels Hempel

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Re: One Systems Vs. Community
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2012, 10:02:19 am »

Some amps do have actual adjustable gain but the controls of the CMX 800V being discussed are labeled "ATTEN" and the manual refers to them as  "Attenuation control" and "attenuation knobs".

So the glass is half empty, not half full?
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Niels Hempel
Tri-Tronics Professional Electronics, NC
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A/V Sales
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Chris Davis

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Re: One Systems Vs. Community
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2012, 10:43:20 pm »

So the glass is half empty, not half full?

Ayyuuup.  Gotta be careful with them pedantics  and semantics, them's is stink-bait 'round these here parts.
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Chris Davis

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Re: One Systems Vs. Community
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2012, 10:44:06 pm »

Has anyone heard the One Systems horn loaded "Cross Field Array" model used in a typical football field scoreboard installation. If so how do you think it compared to the Community R2-52 in terms of throw, clarity, output.


Thanks
Mike C.

Thanks for posting a thread on that.  I learned about something new today.
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: One Systems Vs. Community
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2012, 10:44:06 pm »


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