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Author Topic: LS9 Pre / Post dynamics  (Read 5652 times)

Dean Osborne

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LS9 Pre / Post dynamics
« on: April 28, 2011, 05:04:05 pm »

I am using the LS9 for a show this weekend,
It is running FOH and Monitors

Usually i would run monitors 'Post Eq' and Pre fader on say an analoge desk

With vocals sent to a group and then compressed via the insert

This means Monitor wedges are Pre Fader, Pre Dynamics (compression on vocals) and Post EQ

On the LS9 i can apply dynamics to any input channel (2 lots in fact)
But it would seem the only way to keep the dynamic dsp out of the monitors is to have them 'Pre EQ'

As a rule i run my monitor mixes pretty flat and the same with the foh therefore the mons / foh sound very similar

so any channel eq i apply is to alter the natural sound for effect / improvement or to compensate for mic response...

Therefore i would want channel eq in the mon mix but wouldn't ever want compression in the vocal monitors as feedback will be an issue along with singers wanting the monitors pushed up more and more...

Any advise appriciated

A simple workaround i guess is to send all vocals to a 'mix' compress and route to stereo there but that defeats the point of having dynamics on every input...
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Bob Leonard

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Re: LS9 Pre / Post dynamics
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2011, 05:37:26 pm »

I am using the LS9 for a show this weekend,
It is running FOH and Monitors

Usually i would run monitors 'Post Eq' and Pre fader on say an analoge desk

With vocals sent to a group and then compressed via the insert

This means Monitor wedges are Pre Fader, Pre Dynamics (compression on vocals) and Post EQ

On the LS9 i can apply dynamics to any input channel (2 lots in fact)
But it would seem the only way to keep the dynamic dsp out of the monitors is to have them 'Pre EQ'

As a rule i run my monitor mixes pretty flat and the same with the foh therefore the mons / foh sound very similar

so any channel eq i apply is to alter the natural sound for effect / improvement or to compensate for mic response...

Therefore i would want channel eq in the mon mix but wouldn't ever want compression in the vocal monitors as feedback will be an issue along with singers wanting the monitors pushed up more and more...

Any advise appriciated

A simple workaround i guess is to send all vocals to a 'mix' compress and route to stereo there but that defeats the point of having dynamics on every input...

Hey intense. You won't receive any replies, and the thread will probably be locked until you change to your real name as posted above in the forum rules.
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Dean Osborne

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Re: LS9 Pre / Post dynamics
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2011, 05:52:19 pm »


Hey intense. You won't receive any replies, and the thread will probably be locked until you change to your real name as posted above in the forum rules.

Noted and changed
Thanks for the heads up Bob
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Kirby Yarbrough

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Re: LS9 Pre / Post dynamics
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2011, 06:23:20 pm »

One way to do it is assigning the same input to two channels, one on each layer: input 1 to channel 1 and channel 32, input 2 to ch. 2 and 33, and so on.  Use channels 1-32 for FOH, and assign channels 33-64 to monitor mixes.  They will share the HA gain but the EQs and dynamics can be different, which is what I think you're trying to do.
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Dean Osborne

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Re: LS9 Pre / Post dynamics
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2011, 07:47:27 pm »

One way to do it is assigning the same input to two channels, one on each layer: input 1 to channel 1 and channel 32, input 2 to ch. 2 and 33, and so on.  Use channels 1-32 for FOH, and assign channels 33-64 to monitor mixes.  They will share the HA gain but the EQs and dynamics can be different, which is what I think you're trying to do.

Thats a few page changes during sc!! but I see how it would absolutely work
might get a little confusing if another engineer were to 'try' to adjust monitor levels on layer 1 lol they would end up with a 'mixture' of pre and post dynamics in the monitor mix...
Thats if the dynamics dosen't add any latency!

Thanks
I will have a play with this
I may just use this trick for the vocals only
Not too fussed about the drummer getting gated in the mons thats prob a good thing but not compression in mons thats bad especially on vocals
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Rob Spence

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Re: LS9 Pre / Post dynamics
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2011, 11:20:32 pm »

One way to do it is assigning the same input to two channels, one on each layer: input 1 to channel 1 and channel 32, input 2 to ch. 2 and 33, and so on.  Use channels 1-32 for FOH, and assign channels 33-64 to monitor mixes.  They will share the HA gain but the EQs and dynamics can be different, which is what I think you're trying to do.

Thats a few page changes during sc!! but I see how it would absolutely work
might get a little confusing if another engineer were to 'try' to adjust monitor levels on layer 1 lol they would end up with a 'mixture' of pre and post dynamics in the monitor mix...
Thats if the dynamics dosen't add any latency!

Thanks
I will have a play with this
I may just use this trick for the vocals only
Not too fussed about the drummer getting gated in the mons thats prob a good thing but not compression in mons thats bad especially on vocals
I used to duplicate the inputs on 2 layers and use one for the house and one for monitors and found layer switching a pain and would get it wrong sometime  :-[

So, now I only duplicate the vocal channels over the right end of the board and run the auxes post fader so I can easily see which strips are active. I simply do not assign those to the main mix at all and it made life easier.
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Christian Güssmer

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Re: LS9 Pre / Post dynamics
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2011, 05:46:49 am »

Thats if the dynamics dosen't add any latency!

no, the channel processing (EQ and Dynamics) does not change latency if switched on or off
(inserting a rack of course does)

if you don't want to duplicate the channel(s) the subgroup approach is quite easy... turn some mixbusses into "fixed", route them to ST, enable the compressor and reroute the channels from ST to that mix. (does even work as a stereo pair)
I'd then setup the custom layer to have the channels and group masters on one layer.

of course that "longer signal path" adds latency to the channels going through the subgroups (about 0,3ms)
« Last Edit: April 29, 2011, 05:49:17 am by Christian Güssmer »
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Tim Padrick

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Re: LS9 Pre / Post dynamics
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2011, 11:36:10 pm »

Just download my console file, and peruse it in StudioManager.  Please note the error warning!

http://www.padrick.net/LiveSound/YamahaLS9ConsoleFile.htm
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Dean Osborne

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Re: LS9 Pre / Post dynamics
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2011, 06:36:00 am »

Hi Guys

The job went great yesterday, I'm back there today
I took the 'sub mix' approach and just created stereo 'group masters' for everything then routed to stereo mix
Drums, Vocals, Strings, Keys and Brass

I grouped every thing to maintain equal latency i guess this isn't critical as 0.3ms is only around 10cm! but I guess it could cause phase issues if two mics (1 in a group and 1 not) were getting similar levels of the same source?

Soundcheck took longer than usual as it's been ages since I used an LS9 in anger on a show

Remembering to check i'm on the correct page...
Had a funny incident during sc where the band were complaining of excessive reverb in the mons...
I couldn't remember sending ANY to the mons in the end i found that i had inadvertantly sent +10 reverb to mix 1, must have had the wrong ch selected!!

That just wouldn't happen on an analogue desk!

As wouldn't compressors and gates on all inputs so there are pro's and con's

Anyhow thanks for all the advise

Much appriciated :-)
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Re: LS9 Pre / Post dynamics
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2011, 06:36:00 am »


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