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Author Topic: Recording Services - CD Recorder Faulty, Repair, Replace or....???  (Read 6716 times)

Gibson G. McCrum

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We record our services for distribution to our congregation members who are not able to attend Sunday morning Worship. Our distribution media is CD.

Currently we have the feed out of the board go to a mini-mixer and then into a TEAC cd recorder running in real time. At the end of the service the disc is finalized and then duplicates are made on a tower duplicator.

The service is split real time into tracks for easier manipulation for the end users and to separate and upload the sermon to the website.

Recently the recorder has been unreliable and we have been getting a lot of random failed sessions with disc errors in the middle of the service.

We have tried many different brands of cd media, including Verbatims, with no improvement. We have tried to clean the laser as well.

At this point we feel the unit itself is the issue.

So do we repair or replace?

We need to keep the output media as cd's.

I am afraid I do not have the model number of our recorder nor duplicator with me. The recorder was puchased about five years ago for around $500 - we thought we would get more longevity out of it based on once a week usage but that's just the way things go with electronic items sometimes I guess.

Any nifty options or equipment choices I should consider. As we could get an entry level recorder for around $300 it my not make sense to pursue a repair on the existing unit.

We want to stay simple from an operator point of view as well so digital audio recorders are probaley out of the question.

Any sugestions or advice would be most appreciated!

Thank-you.







       
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g'bye, Dick Rees

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Re: Recording Services - CD Recorder Faulty, Repair, Replace or....???
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2011, 10:03:19 am »



We have tried many different brands of cd media, including Verbatims, with no improvement. We have tried to clean the laser as well.

     

Media was the first thing I thought of.  You say you've tried "many" different brands but don't list them except for the Verbatims.  IME, Verbatim is in no way a premium medium.  For our original master recording we use TU or HHB. Mastering quality CD's are what you're looking for, but a new deck after 5 years might still be a good idea.  We're using a HBB "BurnIt" unit and it has been going strong for 6 years.

Here's a link:

http://www.hhb.co.uk/hhb/usa/hhbproducts/media/index.asp
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Gibson G. McCrum

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Re: Recording Services - CD Recorder Faulty, Repair, Replace or....???
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2011, 10:15:29 am »

Thanks for the quick reply!

Well I didn't know there was a professional grade of CD's - newb alert.

We just referred to the recorders manual that listed compatible cd's. We stayed away from the bulk stuff and Memorex brand.

I suggested we try a batch of Verbatims because in my wife's business she uses alot (1000's) of dvd's and the most reliable we have found and been recommended were "real" Verbatims and Tayo Uden"s (spelling?)

Besides the one mentioned we tried Maxell, TDK, and a couple of other consumer brand name grades. Maybe trying a box of "mastering grade" CD's being the easier and least expensive option should be our firs step.
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Re: Recording Services - CD Recorder Faulty, Repair, Replace or....???
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2011, 10:31:52 am »

We used to use the Tayo Udens, but the distributor stopped carrying them.  A (knowledgeable) friend says to stay away from any brand beginning with "M".  I just buy my stuff from a pro shop rather than Office Max.
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Arnold B. Krueger

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Re: Recording Services - CD Recorder Faulty, Repair, Replace or....???
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2011, 03:20:58 pm »

Thanks for the quick reply!

Well I didn't know there was a professional grade of CD's - newb alert.


The concept of "professional grade" is only part of the difference between buying blank CDs for a CD recorder and doing  what your wife probably dones, which is buying blank CDs for use with computers.

The big thing about burning audio CDs of live events is the number of chances you get to do it right: exactly once! 
Some of us use backup recorders. At church we burn a video DVD as a backup and also to provide video when appropriate.  At music festivals, my favorite backup device is an Ikey SDHC/USB flash-based audio recorder which is an incredible buy for a  professional grade device with balanced analog I/O and in a 1U rack case. Sound quality is excellent.

One other nice thing about burning flash - 16 GB media has a nominal capacity of about 24 hours, which means that you don't have to worry about extra-long services or starting the recording as close as possible to the beginning of the service. You can record for months on the same piece of media and keep many backups from earlier weeks on the same drive.

The big difference in burning blank CDs for a CD recorder is the burning speed, which is for real-time recording by definition 1X.  When people burn CDs on a computer, the usual actual burning speeds are 7x and up. When you are burning data CDs, the burn speeds can easily reach 20 to 40x. 

A common rule of thumb is that burning at high speeds favors a thinner dye layer while burning at low speeds favors a thicker dye layer.  Many people who burn a lot of music CDs favor CDs with a darker blue or green side, and flinch when they see a burning side that is nearly pure silver. FWIW!

When I'm burning CDs for state HS music festivals I go through spindles of Taiyo Yuden CDs like they were animal cookies! ;-)
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Arnold B. Krueger

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Re: Recording Services - CD Recorder Faulty, Repair, Replace or....???
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2011, 03:24:22 pm »

We used to use the Tayo Udens, but the distributor stopped carrying them.  A (knowledgeable) friend says to stay away from any brand beginning with "M".  I just buy my stuff from a pro shop rather than Office Max.

Our church secretary tells me that she can order Taiyo Yuden from Staples locally. Amazon has them online.
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Jonathan Johnson

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Re: Recording Services - CD Recorder Faulty, Repair, Replace or....???
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2011, 10:54:08 pm »

We used to use the Tayo Udens, but the distributor stopped carrying them.  A (knowledgeable) friend says to stay away from any brand beginning with "M".  I just buy my stuff from a pro shop rather than Office Max.

Our church secretary tells me that she can order Taiyo Yuden from Staples locally. Amazon has them online.

I believe Taiyo Yuden CDs & DVDs are marketed under the JVC brand now. I get them from Newegg. There are two product lines: the regular line and the "value" line. The value line is the CDs & DVDs that do not meet TY's stringent specs. Reports I've read are that the value line is still better than most other brands. Even so, I prefer the regular line for music CDs but use the value line for data CDs.

I don't know that all of the CDs marketed by JVC are made by TY, but the ones I have (as well as the Newegg ones linked to above) are labeled as being made in Japan by "Victor Advanced Media Co., Ltd.; Joint Venture of Taiyo Yuden Co. Ltd. and Victor Company of Japan, Limited." The bottom of the label says "For Professional Use."

As for realtime recorders, I recommend the Microboards CopyWriter Live. The price seems kind of steep at $700, but this unit has proven to be very reliable. I've had one in my church for about six years now with no signs of failure. It couldn't be simpler to operate: power on, wait for bootup, insert disc, press record. At the end of the service, you press stop and the disc automatically finalizes. It provides 1:1 high-speed duplication with one button press. You can configure it to automatically insert a track every so-many-minutes, and you can manually insert a track whenever you want. Another cool feature is that since it has two recorders, you can do continuous recording: when a CD fills, it will automatically rollover to a blank CD in the other drive.

If you are interested in PC recording, check out EZTracker CD. It's simple software that can simultaneously record an MP3 for uploads and track-based WAV files for burning to a CD. It, too, can autotrack or you can manually trigger a track. It has the ability to burn CDs directly from the application, but not all CD burners are supported. The cost is minimal.

Both the CopyWriter Live and EZTracker CD are designed especially for churches.

A word of caution about "consumer-grade" CD recorders: many of them require you to use "Music CD-R". The only difference is that you pay more for "Music CD-R" so that the record companies get a bit of royalty for all those CDs they figure you're going to copy. Don't be fooled into thinking that Music CD-R is better quality; they aren't. The JVC/Taiyo Yuden are frequently considered the best available.
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Frank DeWitt

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Re: Recording Services - CD Recorder Faulty, Repair, Replace or....???
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2011, 12:07:47 pm »


If you are interested in PC recording, check out EZTracker CD. It's simple software that can simultaneously record an MP3 for uploads and track-based WAV files for burning to a CD. It, too, can autotrack or you can manually trigger a track. It has the ability to burn CDs directly from the application, but not all CD burners are supported. The cost is minimal.


+1 for EZtrackerCD  We have used it for years.  We haven't lost a service yet. Because it creates a new track and stores it on your hard drive as it goes, (One track every interval you set or every time you push the button) you have the files safely put away even if there is a crash or a power failure. It takes about a minute to transfer the files to the master CD at the end of the service, if you use a quality CD.  (CD quality has everything to do with burn time)

Frank

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Gibson G. McCrum

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Re: Recording Services - CD Recorder Faulty, Repair, Replace or....???
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2011, 10:02:30 am »

Thanks for all the responses.

Although computerized recording will be in our future, I see the necessary hardware upgrades and expenditure budget that would support that move to be several years away at the moment.

One of our operators has a line of some professional grade media that we will try.

Fingers crossed!
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Frank DeWitt

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Re: Recording Services - CD Recorder Faulty, Repair, Replace or....???
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2011, 11:22:39 am »

Thanks for all the responses.

Although computerized recording will be in our future, I see the necessary hardware upgrades and expenditure budget that would support that move to be several years away at the moment.

One of our operators has a line of some professional grade media that we will try.

Fingers crossed!

EZTracker will run on any PC.  If it is new enough to have windows on it, and has a sound card you are all set.  Check the curbs on trash day.

Frank
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Jonathan Johnson

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Re: Recording Services - CD Recorder Faulty, Repair, Replace or....???
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2011, 01:18:27 am »

A word of caution about "consumer-grade" CD recorders: many of them require you to use "Music CD-R". The only difference is that you pay more for "Music CD-R" so that the record companies get a bit of royalty for all those CDs they figure you're going to copy. Don't be fooled into thinking that Music CD-R is better quality; they aren't. The JVC/Taiyo Yuden are frequently considered the best available.

I must correct myself. Many of the consumer-grade (home theater) CD recorders do require specical "Music CD-Rs" BUT I was incorrect in my description of them.

Consumer-grade CD recorders observe the "Serial Copy Management System" (SCMS for short). This system allows you to copy a CD (printed or burned) onto an SCMS-encoded blank CD, but will not allow you to create another copy from the SCMS-encoded copy (copy-of-a-copy). SCMS-enabled recorders will only burn onto SCMS-encoded blanks.

I've read that many of the "Music CD-Rs" you can buy at the big-box are no longer encoded with SCMS. I don't know what the difference between them and regular CD-Rs are, but I suspect there is none. A quick Google search revealed very few online retailers that specifically mention SCMS in their product pages.

With the ubiquity of digital media and the ease of burning CDs on a computer, it appears the powers behind SCMS have essentially given up their fight to prevent copyright infringement. If you are having trouble with an SCMS recorder, your best bet is probably to pitch it in the nearest dumpster.
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Re: Recording Services - CD Recorder Faulty, Repair, Replace or....???
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2011, 01:18:27 am »


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