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[Danny Baies]

...to redo the whole thing will never pass church's committee.

[Tom Young]

By "curve" may we assume you mean threshold ?

[Ivan Beaver]

Danny Baies wrote on Thu, 30 December 2010 12:58

...to redo the whole thing will never pass church's committee.

Then enjoy what you have.  Since they saved so much money doing it themselves, they should have money left over to be able to pay to have it done right.

As the old saying goes-Pay me now or pay me MORE later-after I have to go back and UNDO your work and DO it correctly as should have been done in the first place.

After Brads look at the console I think a MAJOR possibility of your feedback problem is that you are sending the choir mics into the choir monitor.  That is number 1 on my list of sins and other helpful hints for Church sound of what NOT to do.

That will guarantee feeback.  I don't care if the choir wants to "hear" themselves.  If they want to hear they need to sing louder.

The church is going to have to get a professional in to straighten out the mess.  And that is going to cost money.

This is not something that the answer can be found out on the internet.

Sorry, but that is the simple truth.

[Danny Baies]

[quote title=Ivan Beaver wrote on Thu, 30 December 2010 15:06]

Danny Baies wrote on Thu, 30 December 2010 12:58

...to redo the whole thing will never pass church's committee.

Ivan Beaver wrote on Thu, 30 December 2010 15:06

Then enjoy what you have.  Since they saved so much money doing it themselves, they should have money left over to be able to pay to have it done right.

As in this world everything is about money, to me there are ways to bypass that...

Ivan Beaver wrote on Thu, 30 December 2010 15:06

As the old saying goes-Pay me now or pay me MORE later-after I have to go back and UNDO your work and DO it correctly as should have been done in the first place.

Ivan Beaver wrote on Thu, 30 December 2010 15:06

After Brads look at the console I think a MAJOR possibility of your feedback problem is that you are sending the choir mics into the choir monitor.  That is number 1 on my list of sins and other helpful hints for Church sound of what NOT to do.

Agree, but we're not newbies at this...

Ivan Beaver wrote on Thu, 30 December 2010 15:06

That will guarantee feeback.  I don't care if the choir wants to "hear" themselves.  If they want to hear they need to sing louder.

On that totally agree, but rather than have about 50 people complaining i rather split that 50/50 and everyone is happy.

Ivan Beaver wrote on Thu, 30 December 2010 15:06

The church is going to have to get a professional in to straighten out the mess.  And that is going to cost money. This is not something that the answer can be found out on the internet. Sorry, but that is the simple truth.

It is not a "mess" but rather some imperfect functionality.

[Tom Young]

Quote:

After Brads look at the console I think a MAJOR possibility of your feedback problem is that you are sending the choir mics into the choir monitor. That is number 1 on my list of sins and other helpful hints for Church sound of what NOT to do.....That will guarantee feeback.

Absolutely. Plus it smears the sound of the choir mic's and (as a result) negatively impacts the FOH and other mixes. This, and the pastor who "needs" monitors while he/she is preaching, are at the top of the list of "impossible to do" sound practices in so many churches.

Quote:

I don't care if the choir wants to "hear" themselves. If they want to hear they need to sing louder.

Yes, and I realise you were being slightly sarcastic. But to be fair, a choir needs *some* reinforcement and they should be getting it from the acoustic design. I don't have the photo's anymore but I am quite certain there are NO acoustic elements around and for the choir area on this church's platform. So they are always going to feel far less than "enveloped". This problem will never be fixed (obviously) because even if they become convinced of the need for this it will now cost WAY too much to do.

GREAT stewardship.    

[Ivan Beaver]

Tom Young wrote on Thu, 30 December 2010 16:29

Quote: After Brads look at the console I think a MAJOR possibility of your feedback problem is that you are sending the choir mics into the choir monitor. That is number 1 on my list of sins and other helpful hints for Church sound of what NOT to do.....That will guarantee feeback. Absolutely. Plus it smears the sound of the choir mic's and (as a result) negatively impacts the FOH and other mixes. This, and the pastor who "needs" monitors while he/she is preaching, are at the top of the list of "impossible to do" sound practices in so many churches. Quote: I don't care if the choir wants to "hear" themselves. If they want to hear they need to sing louder. Yes, and I realise you were being slightly sarcastic. But to be fair, a choir needs *some* reinforcement and they should be getting it from the acoustic design. I don't have the photo's anymore but I am quite certain there are NO acoustic elements around and for the choir area on this church's platform. So they are always going to feel far less than "enveloped". This problem will never be fixed (obviously) because even if they become convinced of the need for this it will now cost WAY too much to do. GREAT stewardship.

As the old saying goes-you use ACOUSTICAL solutions to fix ACOUSTICAL problems and ELECTRICAL (including loudspeakers) to fix ELECTRICAL problems.

That all boils down to the origional design of the ROOM and whether or not the actual needs of the Church were taken into account.  Very often they are not and somebody who has no idea what is needed by a choir designed something that "looks pretty" to them.  Without actually taking into account what would actually be DONE in the room.

Anytime the customers NEEDS are not taken into account is a FAILURE of a design.  If you ask me.

There are some things that can be done-but they cost money.  I get impression that there is no money to be spent on solutions-only guesses to the problem.  Without addressing the real problem.  But that is just the way I see it.

[Ivan Beaver]

And with "only" 50 people who are actually complaing, there are probably a good number of others who are not happy with the sound-but are not saying anything.

You never know how many  get "chased away" with the poor sound.  They don't say anything-they just go to another Church.  Or how many first time visitors who never go a second time.

I bet if the HVAC system broke, it would be fixed before next Sunday.

Priorities are what we DO.  

[Dick Rees]

The way I see it is that it is not so much a question of loaves and fishes........just desserts.

   

[Mac Kerr]

Dick Rees wrote on Thu, 30 December 2010 20:09

The way I see it is that it is not so much a question of loaves and fishes........just desserts.

Oh you unrepentant Luddite you.  

Don't be a stranger.

Mac

[Danny Baies]

In the situation we are with the speakers in church (because the EASE model shows something else) how much would impact that as far as acoustics. Do you guys have any opinion on how much would be involved to redo a EASE model based on what we have now and see if the acoustics are right or not. I do not have any knowledge in acoustics so therefore i cant talk any specific terms.

Thanks and Happy New Year.  

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