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Author Topic: speaker layout help  (Read 11955 times)

mattwisdom

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speaker layout help
« on: December 20, 2010, 07:32:47 am »

Hi all, I've been lurking for a while and have picked up a lot of tips so thank you for the great contributions.  I'm after a little help if that's ok...

Below is a picture of our room, the top image is a landscape view of our current setup.  The image below is our suggested proposal to move the speakers back to the wall.  

The current problem is that during the worship time most of the congregation move to within the front area of the stage, where our current speakers completely miss the audience and we're relying on the 450's under the stage which doesn't work very well.

We're proposing to move the 1530's back as the second image to improve the coverage of the audience.

Does anyone have any thoughts on whether it will work or not? I'm concerned about the small delay we might get from moving them further back, or is it a case of suck it and see?

As ever no budget at all to do anything much with!


index.php/fa/551/0/

p.s. the speakers are suspended securely (not from the handles!)
Thanks again
Matt
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Brad Weber

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Re: speaker layout help
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2010, 09:22:56 am »

We should probably start with the fact that the SA1530z User Manual states "The cabinet has no rigging points and is not suitable for flying."  So while not flying it by the handles is good, that box is not intended to be flown at all.  According to the User Manual it is also not intended to be pole mounted.  The only recommended mounting option for the SA1530z is floor standing.

The 90x40 coverage of the SA1530z is a nominal value and applies only from 2,000Hz to 10,000Hz, at lower frequencies including those still well within the speech range the coverage may be much wider.  So with that in mind, what does trying to cover the area in front of the stage do in terms of gain before feedback on stage, much less for if you have the sermon being given from the very area you are trying to cover at other times?  Other than the keys, would people right in front of the stage get sufficient sound direct from the instruments and vocalists without needing additional reinforcement?  And is there some reason you couldn't continue to use front fills?

Do you run the system mono or stereo?  Is it used just for music or also for speech?  Your proposed layout looks like you might end up with  significantly varying coverage over the seating area from each speaker, and thus a varying stereo image, and at the same time might have poor localization and intelligibility for someone on the center of the stage talking.  
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Brad Weber
muse Audio Video
www.museav.com

mattwisdom

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Re: speaker layout help
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2010, 12:56:08 pm »

Thanks for your response, the speakers aren't rigged but in a cradle ideally we'd  look to put properly rigged speakers in at some point.  

System is run mono for music and speech, rock style.
We'd also like to improve sight lines for the projector screens mounted against the wall either side of the stage.

Ok so as I understand it we run the risk of experiencing feedback from moving them further back.

From what I've read here we're better not using feedback destroyers and use proper EQ?

The front fills seem to be firing at peoples knees but we may be able to improve things there,

Thanks for your help,
Matt
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: speaker layout help
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2010, 05:08:31 pm »

mattwisdom wrote on Tue, 21 December 2010 12:56

Thanks for your response, the speakers aren't rigged but in a cradle ideally we'd  look to put properly rigged speakers in at some point.  

System is run mono for music and speech, rock style.
We'd also like to improve sight lines for the projector screens mounted against the wall either side of the stage.

Ok so as I understand it we run the risk of experiencing feedback from moving them further back.

From what I've read here we're better not using feedback destroyers and use proper EQ?

The front fills seem to be firing at peoples knees but we may be able to improve things there,

Thanks for your help,
Matt

You aren't going to improve anything by "whacking away" at an eq to try and get rid of feedback.

What you need is a proper design for the room and intended usage.

Your propsed positioning will not cover the seats when people are sitting down.

Front fills on the floor are pretty much useless once you put more than just a couple of people in front of them.

Simply drawing lines on a plot does not give any real indication of coverage patterns, as the actual coverage can vary quite a bit with freq.  It may be 90
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Can I have some more talent in the monitors--PLEASE?

Ivan Beaver
dB Audio & Video Inc.

Jonathan Johnson

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Re: speaker layout help
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2010, 05:15:58 pm »

I'd suggest investigating a central flown cluster just ahead of the stage with appropriate speakers to cover the three seating areas, avoiding reflections from the side and rear walls. In addition, mount a downfill speaker directly under the cluster to cover the "blue bubble."

Connect the downfill speaker to a separate amplifier (and possibly a separate mix bus) from the other cluster speakers, so you can easily turn it up when people are congregating there, and turn it down when the Pastor is speaking from that location so as to avoid feedback.

This may certainly be over budget. But here's a hint: develop a plan, let people know, and the money may magically appear. Never assume that the money you already have is all that's available. For some reason, people arw more willing to give when a project has a plan and a defined cost rather than being open-ended.
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