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Author Topic: Major Audio Overhaul?  (Read 8248 times)

Ed Baumann

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Major Audio Overhaul?
« on: December 21, 2010, 12:45:27 pm »

So after this year's rush to get overflow for Christmas Eve, the church leadership has agreed to hear recommendations for how to upgrade our system (audio and video). Budget would be set by what we ask for.

There are two scenarios I envision happening with audio:
1) We push for live streaming of the service for shut-ins/people out of town.
2) We push for better recording/reproduction (CCTV) of the service.

Our video system needs a complete overhaul, but that's a side issue.

Our current procedure for recording is to hook the record output from the board into a CD burner and mp3 recorder. To get a good recording for reproduction of any kind, we need to get a mix dedicated to the recording. Has anyone made that jump recently and has advice to offer? Budget is not defined, but I'm prepared to ask for the moon so that we can do it right the first time.

Ed
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Major Audio Overhaul?
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2010, 07:57:39 pm »

Ed Baumann wrote on Tue, 21 December 2010 12:45

So after this year's rush to get overflow for Christmas Eve, the church leadership has agreed to hear recommendations for how to upgrade our system (audio and video). Budget would be set by what we ask for.

There are two scenarios I envision happening with audio:
1) We push for live streaming of the service for shut-ins/people out of town.
2) We push for better recording/reproduction (CCTV) of the service.

Our video system needs a complete overhaul, but that's a side issue.

Our current procedure for recording is to hook the record output from the board into a CD burner and mp3 recorder. To get a good recording for reproduction of any kind, we need to get a mix dedicated to the recording. Has anyone made that jump recently and has advice to offer? Budget is not defined, but I'm prepared to ask for the moon so that we can do it right the first time.

Ed

The best way is to get another console to use for the recording. Split the inputs to the main console to the monitor console-1 to 1 and have a couple extra channels for audience mics.

This console needs to be located in a seperate room where they cannot hear the main sancuary.  It needs to have good acoustics so as not to color the sound.  Think recording studio control room.

Then this console would feed the recording medium.

Of course an even better way would be to use a multitrack recorder to record each channel.  Then you could remix as needed and edit at will later on.

Of course this will require another skilled audio person to operate.

You said "shoot for the moon" and that is the correct way to do it.  You can start compromising down from there. Very Happy

Of course the live streaming would have to be done "on the fly".
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Can I have some more talent in the monitors--PLEASE?

Ivan Beaver
dB Audio & Video Inc.

Kent Thompson

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Re: Major Audio Overhaul?
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2010, 01:52:14 am »

Well... we have been that way for a while now. Before it was analog now we have 2 Allen & Heath iLiveT systems with a digital split connected with CAT5 cables no splitters or snakes needed. Obviously it may be out of the range of most peoples budget but, we get great (repeatable) sounding recordings now and production gets all 64 channels available from FOH console and stage rack instead of being limited by our snakes and analog splitters we had. Not to mention all the routing possibilities we have now. The sound is much better than our Mackies were giving us(this is almost an understatement).  If your asking for the moon this is pretty close in my mind but, again this is what we did and may not be feasible or even desirable for you.
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Jonathan Johnson

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Re: Major Audio Overhaul?
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2010, 01:32:44 am »

Recording, streaming, and feeds to overflow areas often can use the same mix, so if you set things up properly for one purpose, you may be able to integrate the other two purposes fairly cheaply.
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Gary Creely

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Re: Major Audio Overhaul?
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2010, 05:50:23 pm »

The title seems a little misleading, is the extent of this project simply to get a better record mix?  This is an important question, because if this was one objective of a larger audio overhaul then it could effect the approach.

Also what is the nature of the church and excising equipment? If it is a large ministry the expectation and resourcing will point in a different direction than a small one.

Gary
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Gary Creely
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Ed Baumann

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Re: Major Audio Overhaul?
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2010, 06:20:41 pm »

The extent of the project is to present a potential budget to take the audio system we have now and bring it up to a professional level for what people hope to do. So what do people hope to do? That's where there is no consensus. I just spent 2 weeks figuring out how we can run an overflow feed to our Fellowship Hall for Christmas Eve (after running it to a small room instead because that's where they wanted it before). This project hopes to present some idea of what it would take so that we don't have to rely on borrowed equipment last minute to pull something off.

Congregation has 2 services on Sundays, we expect over 1000 people to come through Christmas Eve. Sanctuary has a balcony for 100 people, floor seats about 600 in pews (if you pack them in).

CCTV-> Currently runs off of a matrix output to a Protea digital crossover to an analog modulator to an amp, and out to 5 locations around the church.

Recording -> Just pulled off of the recording/replay RCA jacks on the back of the console, split out to mp3 recorder, DVD burner, and CD burner.

Various people have suggested areas they would like to see us expand. Some say streaming, some say have overflow since we are getting a bit full in the sanctuary during out second service, and some people complain about the CD quality that we have on hand.
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Gary Creely

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Re: Major Audio Overhaul?
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2010, 06:29:16 pm »

What make and model sound board are you using?
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Gary Creely
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Jonathan Johnson

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Re: Major Audio Overhaul?
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2010, 01:50:14 am »

Ed Baumann wrote on Thu, 23 December 2010 15:20

The extent of the project is to present a potential budget to take the audio system we have now and bring it up to a professional level for what people hope to do. So what do people hope to do? That's where there is no consensus. I just spent 2 weeks figuring out how we can run an overflow feed to our Fellowship Hall for Christmas Eve (after running it to a small room instead because that's where they wanted it before). This project hopes to present some idea of what it would take so that we don't have to rely on borrowed equipment last minute to pull something off.

Congregation has 2 services on Sundays, we expect over 1000 people to come through Christmas Eve. Sanctuary has a balcony for 100 people, floor seats about 600 in pews (if you pack them in).

CCTV-> Currently runs off of a matrix output to a Protea digital crossover to an analog modulator to an amp, and out to 5 locations around the church.

Recording -> Just pulled off of the recording/replay RCA jacks on the back of the console, split out to mp3 recorder, DVD burner, and CD burner.

Various people have suggested areas they would like to see us expand. Some say streaming, some say have overflow since we are getting a bit full in the sanctuary during out second service, and some people complain about the CD quality that we have on hand.


I think you'll want to come up with a base price for any equipment that is common to all applications (Live Sound, CCTV/Overflow, Recording, Streaming), then package prices for the equipment necessary to support each application.

The base price will be "non-negotiable" -- that is, regardless of which application you implement first, you will need this equipment -- and since it will probably apply somewhat to the live sound, it's the most important. Then the church board can prioritize the applications based on need and price. You will be able to move forward with a proper plan; even if you can't afford everything right now, you will avoid buying mediocre equipment that won't meet future needs. Having a plan for future expansion just means that the church can budget better.
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Ed Baumann

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Re: Major Audio Overhaul?
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2010, 07:27:08 am »

Our main board in the sanctuary is a Soundcraft Series Two 32(?) ch. mixer. I think it's about 5 -6 years old.
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Gary Creely

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Re: Major Audio Overhaul?
« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2010, 08:30:08 am »

Probably the most cost effective way to get a considerably better mix would be to have an available post fade aux supply a record mix. This would allow  you to have an partially independent mix from the house mix. From there you could run it into a compressor, and then a distro. That would be a good mix for recording, streaming, and satellite locations.

Most churches I deal with when they say streaming they typically mean they just want to upload audio for people to stream, not so much a real time audio feed. The arrangement I mention would facilitate either.
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Gary Creely
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Frank DeWitt

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Re: Major Audio Overhaul?
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2010, 03:23:09 pm »

As others have said, the best way to get a good mix, either for a remote room or for recording is with a separate board. It is best if this board is not in a place where the user can hear the live mix.  This allows him to mix signals, not a combination of signals and the live audio in the room.  Mic inputs can be split and fed to two boards but the splitter and snakes will cost a lot.  If you have ever wanted to take advantage of the many features of a digital board, and / or IEMs with individual mixers this may be a good time.  Our church upgraded from analog to Software Audio Console board http://www.softwareaudioconsole.com/ This allowed us to add a second board for recording for the cost of a used PC.

It has worked out great.

Frank
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