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Author Topic: Live Recording  (Read 9092 times)

Arnold B. Krueger

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Re: Live Recording
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2010, 07:13:19 am »

Justin Bartlett wrote on Fri, 26 November 2010 21:00

I can't imagine trying to get a quality recording mix while mixing for the live room at the same time.

Would it be useful to just record to Pro Tools and mix it on Monday instead?



Change Pro Tools to the name of any of a number of fine multitracking DAW software packages from Reaper to Audition to Nuendo and its all the same - a fine idea.

It just plays hob with getting those CDs out at the end of the service.
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Arnold B. Krueger

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Re: Live Recording
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2010, 07:16:40 am »

Joseph White wrote on Sat, 27 November 2010 05:15

Thanks you guys for all of your advice. I am well aware that the separate mixing platform is ideal. I am serving my leadership and must make a case to them for why we need to spend more money than the bigger church down the interstate if they can't hear the difference. If a comparable mix can be produced from FOH then I have to align my priorities with theirs.




A fine way to demo the dfference is to do a comparison of a board mix or a stati mix done on AUX sends with a fine mix off the dedicated console, same service, using one of the freeware software packages that does time-synched comparisons.

The tool you want is called "An ABX Comparator" and while they are used for formal listening tests, one of them will really tell your story for you.

Well,unless the guys doing the mixing aren't so good... Wink
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Brad Weber

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Re: Live Recording
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2010, 08:26:11 am »

Joseph White wrote on Sat, 27 November 2010 00:15

Thanks you guys for all of your advice. I am well aware that the separate mixing platform is ideal. I am serving my leadership and must make a case to them for why we need to spend more money than the bigger church down the interstate if they can't hear the difference. If a comparable mix can be produced from FOH then I have to align my priorities with theirs.

A simple example of the issues is that anyone in the space is hearing not only the acoustics of the space but also the direct sound of the sources, which can definitely affect the resulting mix.  However, a listener outside the space is not subjected to the acoustical environment or live sound of the performance space and thus requires a different mix.  How does someone in the performance space isolate themselves from the space in order to create a good recording or broadcast mix while also still doing their job in regards to the house mix?  Even ignoring the actual physical mixing operation required to create multiple mixes, you can't have one person creating mixes for two very different listening environments without the likelihood of some compromises in one of the mixes.
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Brad Weber
muse Audio Video
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Brian Ehlers

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Re: Live Recording
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2010, 02:03:23 pm »

It's all about compromises.  To me, the way you describe your church and ministry, it's worth having a second mix engineer for the recording.  But I'm not footing the bills.

I'm at the other end of the spectrum.  In addition to FOH, I'm also creating mixes for recording, hearing assistance system, live feed to the fellowship hall, and monitors.  How do I do it all at once?  Obviously, I can't.  Fortunately, the line-up of our musicians stays fairly constant.  I make frequent checks of the mixes I make (listen to every CD) and take notes.  I also keep a log book of "recommended settings" for every channel strip on the board -- and every musician who regularly plays.  (It's an analog board;  if digital, I'd just save them all as presets.)  90% of the time, the end result is 90% good enough.  But when someone throws me a curveball, it might take a few services before I get all their settings dialed in.  If those kind of results are good enough for your church, then you may be able to abandon the recording console.  But of course, it's simply shifted more work onto the FOH engineer, so it's a bit of a false economy.

If your church leadership simply doesn't understand the root issue of multitasking, give them some examples.  Tell them you have decided to get rid of the FOH engineer, lighting operator, and video operator as well.  Next Sunday the preacher will be expected to not only lead the service and preach the sermon, but also run the sound, lights, and video.  There's no reason one person can't do all four;  he just can't do it as good as four people.
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Jonathan Johnson

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Re: Live Recording
« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2010, 12:41:55 am »

Brian Ehlers wrote on Mon, 29 November 2010 11:03

Next Sunday the preacher will be expected to not only lead the service and preach the sermon, but also run the sound, lights, and video.


Be careful what you ask for. You just might get it. For many years in my church, the PA amp was in the pulpit.

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Brandon Conn

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Re: Live Recording
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2010, 06:54:17 am »

Joseph,
At Gatewayin Southlake Tx we ran a venue d-show as FOH, Broadcast, and as the building distributed audio console. The best result we had was to setup the broadcast mix on one of thePQ mixes. We would create a mix minus mix, insert it into the PQ mix, and then insert MC/LAV/Aud mics and any other important ch into the PQ mix. Then we would output patch the PQ mix to our web feed and duplication. This allows to keep all of the levels close to a "normalized" level if you will. Adjusting them on the PQmix. It's like a small mixer within the d-show.

Thanks
Brandon Conn
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Joseph White

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Re: Live Recording
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2010, 11:52:20 am »

Thanks Brandon. That is exactly the type of info I was looking for. I haven't played with the submix features of the console much since it was really just doing FOH. I'll have to play around with those PQ mixes and see what I can get.

Thanks again,

Joseph White
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Joseph White
Calvary Chapel Melbourne
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Live Recording
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2010, 11:52:20 am »


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