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Author Topic: Some Help  (Read 8102 times)

Kevin Wilson

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Some Help
« on: December 15, 2010, 02:37:38 pm »

Hello everyone.

Im new to the forum so please forgive me if this question is in the wrong place (or has been already answered).  I plan on getting to know the forum better - but I have an urgent problem Im hoping knowledgeable people here can help me with.

My problem seems quite simple actually.  Im attempting to record out of the Tape Out connections on our Mackie Mixer into a computer.  Everything is working - sounds good - but the LED signal meter is pegged out.  When I solo any channel it reflects that channels input level - but without any solo button pressed it reverts to pegged out stage.

What am I missing here?


Thanks for assistance help anyone can provide.


PS - All we are trying to do is record our teachings directly into the computer to be transferred to our website.  We are currently going through a digital recorder first - trying to bypass this.  If anyone has a better way to do this?
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Kevin

Mac Kerr

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Here is Some Help
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2010, 03:24:05 pm »

pk4yahweh wrote on Wed, 15 December 2010 14:37

I plan on getting to know the forum better - but I have an urgent problem Im hoping knowledgeable people here can help me with.


The first urgent problem I see is your complete failure to read or abide by the posting rules of these forums. It is clearly stated at the top of every page that you must use your real full name when posting here. Hopefully when you have corrected this problem it will be possible to help you fix your other problem.

Mac
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Kevin Wilson

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Re: Here is Some Help
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2010, 03:42:59 pm »

Mac Kerr wrote on Wed, 15 December 2010 15:24



The first urgent problem I see is your complete failure to read or abide by the posting rules of these forums. It is clearly stated at the top of every page that you must use your real full name when posting here. Hopefully when you have corrected this problem it will be possible to help you fix your other problem.

Mac


My apologies for not reading that first.

Fixed.
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Kevin

Matthias Heitzer

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Re: Some Help
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2010, 03:48:09 pm »

Perhaps your output level is so low that the lowest led of the meter is not reached.
how high are the faders (master and channels) set?
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I'm from Germany,so please excuse my bad english.

Jonathan Johnson

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Re: Some Help
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2010, 03:48:41 pm »

What model of Mackie?
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Brad Weber

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Re: Some Help
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2010, 03:51:16 pm »

Which Mackie mixer?  Which meters, on the Mackie or for the computer input?  Are you only recording or also you also creating other mixes with the same mixer?
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Brad Weber
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Kevin Wilson

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Re: Some Help
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2010, 04:05:21 pm »

It is the Mackie 3204 VLZ

The VU meter on the front of the board is maxed.

All faders are normal - and the signal meter doesnt change regardless of what you do with any faders or input levels.  

When the Tape Out is plugged into the digital recording device this issue does not happen.  Seems like it is something related to plugging into the computer?

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Kevin

Aaron McQueen

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Re: Some Help
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2010, 04:13:37 pm »

Is the computer being used for playback also?

It sounds like what used to happen if you would use a tape deck for record and playback at the same time.  You would create a feedback loop and the input would be pegged.  Most people would have 2 tape decks to get around the problem, one labeled 'record' and one labeled 'playback'.
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Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God - Romans 10:17 NKJV

Kevin Wilson

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Re: Some Help
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2010, 04:18:50 pm »

Yes - the computer is being used for playback as well...  we were routing the playback in through an additional channel.  

What would be a better way to set this up?

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Kevin

Dick Rees

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Re: Some Help
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2010, 04:24:29 pm »

Kevin Wilson wrote on Wed, 15 December 2010 16:18

Yes - the computer is being used for playback as well...  we were routing the playback in through an additional channel.  

What would be a better way to set this up?





Re-read the post before yours.  "Most people use 2 different machines for playback and record."

This answer works.
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Aaron McQueen

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Re: Some Help
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2010, 05:23:44 pm »

Kevin Wilson wrote on Wed, 15 December 2010 16:18

Yes - the computer is being used for playback as well...  we were routing the playback in through an additional channel.  

What would be a better way to set this up?




Yeah, like Dick said you need two machines.  This is why the digital recording is working.  Why not keep using it?
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Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God - Romans 10:17 NKJV

Kevin Wilson

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Re: Some Help
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2010, 05:46:09 pm »

Aaron McQueen wrote on Wed, 15 December 2010 17:23



Yeah, like Dick said you need two machines.  This is why the digital recording is working.  Why not keep using it?


It is dropping the recording levels after the first few minutes.  My thought was to just eliminate it and go straight to computer... but what you guys are saying makes sense.  

Guess I will try to figure out what is wrong with the digital recorder instead.
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Kevin

Kent Thompson

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Re: Some Help
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2010, 06:10:49 pm »

Sounds like it may be a gain stage problem to me.  There is a switch that changes the solo meters from pfl to afl. What it is set to may give you a hint as to where the hot signal is comming from.

As others have suggested you should stick with the recorder till you can get a separate computer for record and playback.
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Sidney.Pilien

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Re: Some Help
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2010, 08:58:56 pm »

What's the level at the 2 track return master? Is the solo mode switched to AFL? Should be set to PFL and the record level to the computer set at the 2 track return master.

At solo mode, you can only monitor the levels through headphones or monitor out. Don't pay attention to the meters.

You need to monitor the record levels at the computer and set the levels from the 2 track return master.

Playback from the computer is fine. Why do you need another machine when you are playing it back from the drive anyway?

BTW is that suck knob for real?  

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Kent Thompson

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Re: Some Help
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2010, 01:09:46 am »

[quote title=Sidney Pilien wrote on Wed, 15 December 2010 20:58 Why do you need another machine when you are playing it back from the drive anyway?[/quote]
Because he also wants to record to the computer.


as to the recorder. Some have an automatic level control which could when it gets a loud note all of the sudden lower the level. I would check for that setting.
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Arnold B. Krueger

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Re: Some Help
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2010, 03:14:32 am »

Kevin Wilson wrote on Wed, 15 December 2010 22:46

Aaron McQueen wrote on Wed, 15 December 2010 17:23



Yeah, like Dick said you need two machines.  This is why the digital recording is working.  Why not keep using it?


It is dropping the recording levels after the first few minutes.  My thought was to just eliminate it and go straight to computer... but what you guys are saying makes sense.  

Guess I will try to figure out what is wrong with the digital recorder instead.



Which digital recorder? You seem to not understand the value of specific information. Do you not undertand that there are more than one kind of digital recorder and more than one kind of console in the world and that they vary significantly?

I've never seen a recorder with ALC that took 2 minutes to adjust itself, The usual time delay is about instantaneous.

When you say that the reocrding levels are dropping, how does that correlate with the loudness in the room, or changes in the signal source?
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Kevin Wilson

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Re: Some Help
« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2010, 11:09:25 am »

OK - sorry for such choppy info... Im trouble shooting as I explain and forget to provide all the details.

Currently we are recording the teachings through a wireless lapel mic (audio tech 600) and into a Mackie 3204 VLZ board.  We have the signal coming out of the Tape Out and into a Marantz PMD660 solid state recorder.  Each week we transfer the recording from the 2 GB card into the computer - edit - then post to website.  (We do not do CD's - church people go straight to the site or itunes to download for themselves).  Upon reviewing the recording the past few weeks we have noticed the sound dropping out between 3-5 minute mark.  It is fine until then - but then reduced to almost nothing. (This is during normal voice recording... nothing different in volume then normal - and there appears to be a bit of residual volume still bleeding through).  Obviously this wont work.

We have an HP media center set up in a different area (about 10 feet from the sound booth).  So - my initial thought was to bypass the digital recorder and go straight from the Tape Out into the computer.  

This is where my issues arose.

When plugging into the computer from the Tape Out - the signal VU meters on the board are maxed out.  The recording works and sound fine... We do use the same computer for playback - routed into the Tape In connection.  (Unplugging this does nothing to eliminate the high meter levels).

The problem with this is that I have very inexperienced sound people and the maxed out levels would only confuse them (beyond the fact that it just doesnt seem correct).

The Tape Out level is set at 9:00 and the Solo Mode is set to PFL.


So here it is in a nutshell.

1.  Would it be more beneficial to bypass the Marantz and go straight into the computer?  If so - how do I correct the meter issue? Also - would the sound loss while transferring the distance from the board to the computer make the recording worthless?

2.  If sticking with the Marantz is the best way - what could be causing the sound to drop out?

3.  Are there suggestions on a better way to do this as a whole?  I am the Pastor and have the budget to correct this - but want to be sensible and make a wise choice for our current needs.


Many thanks to everyone who is helping with this.

Kevin
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Kevin

Lee Buckalew

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Re: Some Help
« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2010, 02:37:07 pm »

What are the specific connections being used.
Out of the console to what connector on what cable (wired how if it's adapting different types).
What connector is being used to input to the computer?

Also the same for the feeds from the computer back to the console.  
Please include any adapters in between.

The best guess was an electronic feedback loop but you have said that even if you disconnect the playback from the computer to the console the meters still max out.
Have you disconnected the cable at both the computer and console ends to try this?

You may have some wiring adapter or other device improperly wired so you are backfeeding something.from the computer to the console via the console tape out.



Lee Buckalew
Pro Sound Advice, Inc.
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Sidney.Pilien

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Re: Some Help
« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2010, 10:34:05 pm »

As far as I can see, you have everything set up properly. Prior to this, you had no problems so I'm assuming everything was fine until now and the only complaint is that the recording is dropping out.

The only source of this issue is at the recorder. Since your sound people is inexperienced, I wouldn't switch over to another media yet and stick to what you have for now.

I'm assuming
A.you have a y cable connected: dual rca out (tape out from mixer) to 1/8" trs or stereo in (recorder). After about 5 munutes it drops out.

B. As an alternative, you tried to record through the computer so upon connecting it, the meter at the mixer pegs out. If so, solve the recorder issue first.

Try this-
1. Is the card full? Try a new one.
2. Is the recorder on batteries? If so, use the power adapter or change the batteries.
3. Do you have a cd or mp3 player plugged in the the mixer? Record from that and  
    monitor the record indicator and see if it drops out.

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Jonathan Johnson

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Re: Some Help
« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2010, 01:15:35 am »

Kevin Wilson wrote on Thu, 16 December 2010 08:09


When plugging into the computer from the Tape Out - the signal VU meters on the board are maxed out.  The recording works and sound fine... We do use the same computer for playback - routed into the Tape In connection.  (Unplugging this does nothing to eliminate the high meter levels).


Double-check that the line going into the PC is connected to a LINE IN jack (usually blue) and not a MIC jack (usually pink). Some MIC jacks can backfeed voltage into the other device's output (your mixer) and that could cause the problem. If it indeed is plugged into the LINE IN, you may have a faulty sound card in the PC or a faulty cable.
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Brad Weber

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Re: Some Help
« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2010, 09:03:18 am »

Just curious, but if you are going to record to and/or playback from a computer, have you considered using the USB connectivity integrated into the 3204VLZ3 instead of the Tape In and Tape Out connections?  That lets you select route the main left/right or Groups 1/2 and Aux 5/6 or Groups 3/4 to the USB  connection and to use the USB connection rather than Tape In for the 2 Track Return.
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Brad Weber
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Kevin Wilson

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Re: Some Help
« Reply #21 on: December 18, 2010, 06:29:29 pm »

Thanks for all the great input.  I will check out all these suggestions and report back.  The USB angle is interesting... I don't think I ever thought about doing it that way.

After doing some trouble shooting and testing Im starting to think it is operator error that is causing the sound to drop out when using the digital recorder.

Thanks!

Kevin
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Kevin
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