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Author Topic: Subwoofer question!  (Read 13467 times)

trevor.flynn

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Re: Subwoofer question!
« Reply #20 on: December 03, 2010, 06:15:39 pm »

Depending on the amp you have powering those speakers, they are rated for 850 watts RMS on the low end, so I think as long as you are careful with your kick and bass and add a high pass filer at about 60 hz or so to them, you can get some great results depending on how big the room is.  

If you are going to go that route, I wouldn't bother getting a kick drum mic.  Just stick a shure SM57 on the kick and call it a day, I have used a 57 to mic the kick of much larger and more expensive system with great results.  
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Trevor Flynn
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George S Dougherty

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Re: Subwoofer question!
« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2010, 02:54:27 pm »

trevor.flynn wrote on Fri, 03 December 2010 16:15

Depending on the amp you have powering those speakers, they are rated for 850 watts RMS on the low end, so I think as long as you are careful with your kick and bass and add a high pass filer at about 60 hz or so to them, you can get some great results depending on how big the room is.  

If you are going to go that route, I wouldn't bother getting a kick drum mic.  Just stick a shure SM57 on the kick and call it a day, I have used a 57 to mic the kick of much larger and more expensive system with great results.  


Highly doubtful.  That's 850W RMS for the driver, but the lower you go, the more power it takes and the faster you run out of xmax to produce clean output at lower frequencies.  A quartet of 8's will move a decent amount of air, but only about as much as a single 15" of the same xmax.  Displacement will determine output capability.  

The gain with 4 8" is in accuracy and smoothness of dispersion as the 8" will have a broader pattern into higher frequencies than a single 15" would.

IME, without a sub, there's not much point in mic'ing the kick anyway.  You'll add some presence and volume, but little real impact.  Having mixed on the system setup both with and without subs using 3-way high output tops that are fairly strong down to about 60Hz, I can accurately attest to the difference they make.  A 57 will certainly capture anything you'll be able to reproduce though.

The other thing to note is that running subs and crossing over where the tops are still quite efficient will make a big difference in low-mid clarity.  When you push a mid-bass driver to produce deeper bass, instead of offloading it to a speaker designed for it, everything coming out of the mid-bass will suffer.  We had multiple comments from people noting how much cleaner things sounded when we added our single sub several years ago.  Vocals and instrumentation instantly improved.
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trevor.flynn

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Re: Subwoofer question!
« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2010, 08:59:46 pm »

Just to clarify, by "great results" I mean within the context of this being a system without a sub and not a yamaha or peavey 115 cabinet.  

Especially biamped you can drive the low end up to the peak value of the low frequency drivers and move some air.  Granted, the 8" isn't perfectly suited for pushing low end, but with better designed cabinets comes greater efficiency.  I would give it a shot at least, see what results you get.  Boost a little 125hz on the kick, drop 500hz and boost 1.25 a little.   You might like what you hear.  Best opinion is always going to be the guy whose ears are in the room.  

Are you going to feel the low end through your entire body......ummmm no.  But is there nice tone and harmonics from a kick drum above 50hz?.......yes...

just my 2 cents.  
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Arnold B. Krueger

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Re: Subwoofer question!
« Reply #23 on: December 06, 2010, 09:28:04 am »

Silas Ng wrote on Tue, 19 October 2010 16:37

Hi all,

I'm budgetting for next year's AV needs at our church and wanted to get a sub to complement the rest of the system.

Right now we run 2 Renkus Heinz STX4 on the LR stage. I know it's not easy to tell exactly which sub or where to put it without looking at it, but I don't mind experimenting! In terms of looking for subs, someone at an AV store suggested the sub usually has higher power than the other speakers? Is that correct?

I'm not looking to have a rock concert or anything. Just a little bit of low end for the kick/bass.




Depending on the room, and your preferences for SPLs, you may be able to obtain substantially more oooph for your bass instruments by simply tweaking the eq on the RPM 88.  If your STX4s are passive, you might want to put a meter across their input terminals and find out how much power you are currently using. If its only a few dozen watts or less, you could probably
add some bass eq and not overdrive the speakers.
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Brad Weber

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Re: Subwoofer question!
« Reply #24 on: December 06, 2010, 09:52:19 am »

trevor.flynn wrote on Fri, 03 December 2010 18:15

Depending on the amp you have powering those speakers, they are rated for 850 watts RMS on the low end, so I think as long as you are careful with your kick and bass and add a high pass filer at about 60 hz or so to them, you can get some great results depending on how big the room is.

Just so others do not get the wrong impression, I'm not disagreeing with the general opinion, however why would the low frequency section power rating by itself be that relevant to the output level at very low frequencies?  Power ratings do not directly represent the potential, much less actual, output at any frequency, you also need to consider factors such as the related sensitivity and response.

Also, keep in mind that a 60Hz high pass means that the knee of the filter is at 60Hz and thus represents some reduction in level depending on the filter type.  A 60Hz high pass could mean it being over 100Hz before the filter is not applying some level reduction.

Just to put things in some context, the R-H STX4 mains have a list price of around $3,200 each and require an external crossover and two channels of amplification per speaker, so you may have anywhere from $6,000 to $8,000 invested in the existing mains.  Unless you run the mains much below their potential, with a $1,000 budget it may be overly optimistic to hope to find a subwoofer that would really add that much.  On the other hand, it should be easy enough to try adding kick and bass into the mix and see how it works.
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Silas Ng

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Re: Subwoofer question!
« Reply #25 on: December 07, 2010, 01:21:32 pm »

Thanks Brad. I didn't know how much those costs by themselves and it makes sense to invest in the subs equally.

I'll try to mic the kick and bass by itself. Need to cut a hole in that kick drum first and find a good bass amp DI.
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Re: Subwoofer question!
« Reply #25 on: December 07, 2010, 01:21:32 pm »


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