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Author Topic: Subwoofer question!  (Read 13452 times)

Silas Ng

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Subwoofer question!
« on: October 19, 2010, 11:37:25 am »

Hi all,

I'm budgetting for next year's AV needs at our church and wanted to get a sub to complement the rest of the system.

Right now we run 2 Renkus Heinz STX4 on the LR stage. I know it's not easy to tell exactly which sub or where to put it without looking at it, but I don't mind experimenting! In terms of looking for subs, someone at an AV store suggested the sub usually has higher power than the other speakers? Is that correct?

Or will something like this be fine?
http://www.long-mcquade.com/products/361/Pro_Audio_Recording /Subwoofers/Yorkville_Sound/LS200P_200-Watt_Powered_Subwoofe r.htm

I'm not looking to have a rock concert or anything. Just a little bit of low end for the kick/bass.

Any help appreciated!
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Dick Rees

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Re: Subwoofer question!
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2010, 01:22:56 pm »

The most likely match for your RH tops would be the RH subs designed and engineered to go with them as a system.  Take a look at the ST4XL:

http://www.renkus-heinz.com/support/marketing_sales-support/ brochures/brochures_pdf/st-stx.pdf

You'll have much less fudging to do if you stick within a comprehensively designed system.

DR
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Silas Ng

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Re: Subwoofer question!
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2010, 03:50:59 pm »

I saw that but the brochure mentioned they were meant to be stacked or in an array, which we can't do. The speakers right now are built into the wall pretty much. So I was thinking I could put the sub on the ground floor.
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Dick Rees

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Re: Subwoofer question!
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2010, 08:17:00 pm »

They are designed as stated.  That, however, does not mean that they are limited to those applications.  It would be worth contacting RH for clarification.  Why don't you ask them?  Can't hurt....
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Silas Ng

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Re: Subwoofer question!
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2010, 09:59:31 pm »

Thanks Dick for your quick response.

Another reason we don't want to with those ones is we're limited on budget. So we're looking for a powered sub in the $1000-under range.
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Dick Rees

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Re: Subwoofer question!
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2010, 10:19:44 pm »

It has been truly said that the wrong piece of gear at the right price is still the wrong piece of gear.  Not saying that the RH sub is the only one, just that making choices with price as the primary consideration is often wrong.  The choice of subs is probably easier as you're not really dealing with pattern control, simply trying to find a box with enough power to balance out your tops.  As such, the ratio of 2 sub watts to each watt of mid/hi output is pretty standard.  If your highs total, say 800 speaker watts, you'd be looking for double that or 1600 sub watts.

Good luck  
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Brad Weber

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Re: Subwoofer question!
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2010, 08:34:36 am »

Silas Ng wrote on Tue, 19 October 2010 11:37

Right now we run 2 Renkus Heinz STX4 on the LR stage. I know it's not easy to tell exactly which sub or where to put it without looking at it, but I don't mind experimenting! In terms of looking for subs, someone at an AV store suggested the sub usually has higher power than the other speakers? Is that correct?

Subs typically require more power to get the same output as most mains, however it is the output level and not simply the power rating or power provided that matter.  If a sub has or can take 10 times as much power as your mains but provides 10dB less output then does the high power rating really matter?  So what you normally want is a sub whose level at the listeners matches well to your existing mains.  For contemporary services, and especially with the kick and bass in the system, that typically means a sub output that equals or exceeds by up to 10dB (or perhaps even more) the level provided by your mains.

Looking at the specs for the R-H STX4 and the Yorkville LS200P, if the existing speakers are powered at anywhere near their rated power then adding an LS200P subwoofer is probably not going to be much, if any, improvement.  That's not surprising considering that you have two speakers each with four 200W rated, 8" low frequency drivers and are looking at a subwoofer with a single 200W rated, 10" driver.

Since the STX4 are biamped speakers I assume you have some type of crossover or DSP in your system, but does it support adding a subwoofer?  You probably want the ability to high pass and low pass the sub and high pass the mains, as well as perhaps apply some delay and EQ to the sub.  If you don't have that capability then that related equipment is going to take up part of your budget.  The proper setup and adjustment of the processing may also have some cost whether it is new or existing.

Without knowing more about the details of the application and your existing system it is difficult to make any definitive statements, but a general comment would be that the capabilities of your existing speakers at least on the surface suggest that adding a subwoofer that would make a noticeable improvement might require more than your current under $1,000 budget.
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Brad Weber
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Silas Ng

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Re: Subwoofer question!
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2010, 11:27:40 am »

Thanks guys. I think I understand a little bit better.

We use a Rane RPM88 processor that feeds the STX4, so I know it's possible to set the crossover on it and probably adjust it for the subwoofer. Most subs have a low pass filter built in, don't they?

I know this is just generalizing, but what kind of sub would be more suitable with these speakers?

I was planning on just running an aux from the mixer directly to the sub.

Another question, we haven't really had the opportunity to mic the kick yet (in the midst of re-doing the drum setup), but even without a sub, is it worthwhile to mic the kick and bass amp into just the STX4? With the bass amp, we can usually turn it up loud enough so you can still hear it across the room (700 seat sanctuary).
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Dick Rees

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Re: Subwoofer question!
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2010, 12:37:36 pm »

Silas Ng wrote on Wed, 20 October 2010 11:27



I was planning on just running an aux from the mixer directly to the sub.




You need to utilize the Rane (or other) unit between the board and the sub(s) to properly process and divide the LF/HF signals.  
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Silas Ng

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Re: Subwoofer question!
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2010, 05:58:26 pm »

Thank Dick. Seems like this might be out of our price range right now.

Going back to my other question, is it worthwhile to mic the kick drum/ bass amp without sub?
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Re: Subwoofer question!
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2010, 05:58:26 pm »


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