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Author Topic: Speaker recommendations  (Read 11968 times)

Jeff Broadhead

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Speaker recommendations
« on: October 15, 2010, 08:58:45 pm »

Looking for advice on speakers to replace our tired Bullfrog 12" speakers.  We are a small (average attendance around 100)  Southern Baptist Church.  Services include spoken word, Yamaha electric piano, bass player, choir with cd acompanyment, and solos with cd.  I have attached a layout of our sanctuary.  Basically the seating area is 30' wide x 51' deep with 16' ceilings. The walls and ceilings are drywall.  Floors are carpeted, pews are upholstered. Our budget for speakers is around $1000.  I was looking at basic JBL or Peavey Guitar Center speakers, but then found out about the Elecro-Voice EVI-12 or EVI-15.  It seems our sanctuary is the perfect size for one of these.  The only problem is we have a ceiling mounted projector that it would have to be mounted behind, leaving appr. 4-5 feet from the speaker to the front pew.  EV's application guide says it could be aimed downward 15 degrees and would make more of a square pattern and the front seating could be 4 feet away when mounted at 16' height.  Does this sound like a good option to you guys.  If we have to go with regular speakers, what size and pattern would you recommend?  We can do active or passive (we have passive now).  Thanks in advance.
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Jonathan Johnson

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Re: Speaker recommendations
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2010, 02:07:53 am »

You may be able to get a different lens for the projector that would allow it to be moved closer to the screen.
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Chris Penny

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Re: Speaker recommendations
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2010, 06:45:51 pm »

Our EVI-15 is placed directly above out front row (structural limitation). In terms of coverage the first 2-5 rows suffer a bit (although you can still hear it) and we have fill speakers for them but after that coverage is pretty good. With 4-5 feet you may find with a small angle down you may get good enough coverage depending on your program.

The most important thing is to get a contractor in to hang them if you go this way. They are a pretty heavy speaker and you want to ensure things are appropriately rigged. You may also need an structural engineer or equivalent to certify your hanging points to ensure they can handle the load.
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Chris Penny
Lead Sound Person
Caringbah Anglican Church
http://www.stphils.org

Jeff Broadhead

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Re: Speaker recommendations
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2010, 12:57:19 am »

In our situation, maybe the EVI-28 would be a better choice.  EV says if they are installed with a 10-15 degree down angle, they give the same coverage as the EVI-12 or 15, and would begin at 25% of the mounting height, which would give me my 4 feet.  Will the EVI-28 be enough for a 30x50 room? Some more options I am considering if I stick to a L/R configuration:

Yorkville     C2285
Electro-Voice SX100+E
  "      "   ZX4
  "      "   ZX190 paired with SB122 subs.
 JBL         MRX512M
Community     CPL42-94

I know most of these are above the budget I proposed, but that was just an estimate, I can probably squeeze a little more.
Thoughts please!
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Steven Fondren

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Re: Speaker recommendations
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2010, 03:50:08 am »

Don't know if this will help much as I'm not that technical...but we recently did the sound in our church.  We have a relatively small auditorium that might seat 200 VERY full.  We used 2 JBL AC28/95's.  The sound is great and they are fairly attractive as speakers go.  We got the White ones.  They pretty low profile but have fantastic sound.  We get plenty of high and low from them.  These would be a little outside your budget as I think they cost us about 15 for the pair.  However, they do have some smaller speakers that would probably work for your size building and cost less.  We went with a little over kill as we are planning to build a slightly larger auditorium soon.  Here's the link to the JBL AE series.
http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/General/ProductFamily.aspx?FId =63&MId=2
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Arnold B. Krueger

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Re: Speaker recommendations
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2010, 09:10:34 am »

Chris Penny wrote on Sun, 17 October 2010 23:45

Our EVI-15 is placed directly above out front row (structural limitation). In terms of coverage the first 2-5 rows suffer a bit (although you can still hear it) and we have fill speakers for them but after that coverage is pretty good. With 4-5 feet you may find with a small angle down you may get good enough coverage depending on your program.



I don't worry too much about coverage for the first few rows because they get a pretty heavy dose of direct sound from the live acoustic sources.
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Brad Weber

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Re: Speaker recommendations
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2010, 09:20:04 am »

Do you run the bass and piano through the sound system or do the stage amps provide sufficient sound for those?  Whether you have to support bass, keys and possibly kick drum in the future may affect the size and response required for the speaker.

How is your existing system configured and wired?  You currently have speakers to either side of the 'stage' and are looking at the possibility of a single center speaker.  While that may be a good choice for the speaker system, how well does it work with the rest of the existing system configuration and equipment?  And how practical is it to relocate the existing speaker cabling to the center location or to run new cabling?

How important is coverage of the 'overflow' seating areas?

What are the room finishes and how are the room acoustics?

Where are the microphones relative to the speaker locations?  The EVI speakers do not have much directionality at low frequencies and perhaps as high as 500Hz to 1,000Hz so you want to be sure you aren't creating a situation where gain before feedback could be an issue.

These are just some of the issues that should probably be considered in making a speaker selection for your application.
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Brad Weber
muse Audio Video
www.museav.com

Jonathan Johnson

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Re: Speaker recommendations
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2010, 10:18:50 am »

Arnold B. Krueger wrote on Wed, 17 November 2010 06:10

Chris Penny wrote on Sun, 17 October 2010 23:45

Our EVI-15 is placed directly above out front row (structural limitation). In terms of coverage the first 2-5 rows suffer a bit (although you can still hear it) and we have fill speakers for them but after that coverage is pretty good. With 4-5 feet you may find with a small angle down you may get good enough coverage depending on your program.



I don't worry too much about coverage for the first few rows because they get a pretty heavy dose of direct sound from the live acoustic sources.


A heavy dose from the worship team... but what about the pastor? Can they hear him?
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Jeff Broadhead

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Re: Speaker recommendations
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2010, 09:23:04 pm »

Right now we are running the 2 FOH speakers in parallel on channel 1 of a Samson S700 amp and 2 monitors in parallel on channel 2.  We also have a couple of older AB International amps, can't remember the model, that we could use.  I think one is around 500 watts and the other 100 watts that can be used.  We do run the piano and bass through the mains, no plans for drums.  Wiring isn't a problem, we can run them in the attic.  I was planning on running new speaker wire anyway.  Overflow coverage is not a priority right now.  We can always add fill speakers later.  I think we are going to solve the problem with the projector, so if we do get one of the EVI's we can place it correctly.  I don't think feedback will be a problem, it will be almost directly over the podium and in front of the choir mikes.  The problem we have now is money, donations are not exactly pouring in.  Might even have to settle for a pair of JBL JRX115's on sale for $229 each.  I know they are pretty much frowned upon here, but they would have to be light years better than the Bullfrogs.
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Andrew Cupples

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Re: Speaker recommendations
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2010, 05:07:04 pm »

Hi guys,
I don't mean to hijack this thread, but I'm interested in the EVI15 speakers as an option too, they seem to be ideal for our setup, which is pretty similar to Jeff's - the hall is slighty larger, but in the same proportions. They're hard to find in the UK, so speaking to people who use them is difficult.

At the moment we use two Behringer B1220PRO speakers and a pair of 15" JBL subs, driven by a Yamaha P3200 and Behringer EP2500 respectively. Music would be fairly contemporary, with lead and backing vocals, piano, keys, bass, accoustic and lead guitar going through the mains. Probably about 100 people on an average Sunday morning.

There are various issues such as waaay too much stage noise and an extremely reverberant hall, but plans are afoot to get more musicians on in ears and get some acoustic treatment. Spoken word is fine. With the current setup, I don't feel the coverage is particularly even, and getting an intelligible mix for worship is difficult. A point source just sounds so much more straightforward to me, rather than left and right main speakers. Our budget wouldn't stretch to line arrays.

The EVI15 seems to be ideal for keeping the sound on the congregation, and not bouncing around the walls. I have a friend with a PA hire company who has the necessary skills and cover to fly it. My concern is that it would be up to the job. I would probably use one or both of the subs at the back centre of the stage, crossed over appropriately. Also, they would need to be able to survive footballs (soccer balls) being kicked at them pretty hard, as it's a multipurpose hall. Are they resilient?

I understand it's a difficult question to tackle without actually being in the room and without knowing more info. I can supply further info, or start a new thread if appropriate.
Many thanks
Andrew
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