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Author Topic: Much needed upgrade. Please give advice!  (Read 15406 times)

George S Dougherty

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Re: Much needed upgrade. Please give advice!
« Reply #60 on: July 22, 2010, 04:56:53 pm »

Brad Weber wrote on Thu, 22 July 2010 12:55


One of the biggest challenges for me personally is demos.  It is great to be able to download the demo SAC software.  However, I can typically make a few calls to manufacturers or reps and arrange a hands-on demo of just about any console, or even get one sent to me to play with, while you basically have to get all of the hardware proposed and get everything working in order to have a comparable SAC demo where someone can see, operate and hear the mixer.  I have yet to find an easy way to address that, especially if I want to avoid involving an actual dealer or contractor at that point.  Any suggestions?


Simple option is to check with the SAC forum and see if there's anyone running it in your area.  The community tends to be very helpful and willing to help demo live instances.

Beyond that, it does get a bit more tricky if you don't want to invest in a system of your own.  The good thing is that you can put together a basic demo system for a small amount of money.  MOTU 2408 interfaces can be had on ebay for around $250 and most anything from a P4 on up can handle a respectable 16-24 channel count without issues.  Grab a few ADA8000's or some alternate used preamps and you could demo the software.  Pickup a BCF2000 for about $150 if you want to demo a basic control surface.  Since the software functions the same no matter what hardware you wrap around it, it's fairly easy to demo a basic system and explain any advantages a proposed system might bring.

I don't know if Bob would be willing to "loan" you a full copy of SAC in order to promote sales but it'd be worth broaching the subject with him.  If I were Bob, I'd do it in a heartbeat on the understanding that it's specifically for client requested demo purposes only and anything beyond that would require purchase of a license.  At $500, if you got to where you'd like to use it yourself it's not a bank buster.

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Arnold B. Krueger

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Re: Much needed upgrade. Please give advice!
« Reply #61 on: July 22, 2010, 07:21:39 pm »

Jordon King wrote on Thu, 22 July 2010 19:11

Also any of you guys have any recommendations on headphones or in ears for the bass player and drummer?  The drummer and bass player especially are kind of reluctant on switching to in ear monitors.


I have a couple of musicans using Sennheiser HD 280s and another one using Audio Technica ATH-A700s. I found them refurbed on the web for around $65 in like new condition.

Our migration to Aviom seems to making everybody happy.

Our keyboard guy likes making his own mix, while the the drummmer and the bass guy pretty much just listen to themselves. Everbody likes the isolation of headphones seemingly as much as being able to do their own monitor mix.

I like the fact that monitor spill is way down and I can actually mix their instruments as low or high as I want. I can now get the tone I want because the monitor speakers are running at a much lower level.
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George S Dougherty

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Re: Much needed upgrade. Please give advice!
« Reply #62 on: July 23, 2010, 01:19:45 am »

Arnold B. Krueger wrote on Thu, 22 July 2010 17:21


I like the fact that monitor spill is way down and I can actually mix their instruments as low or high as I want. I can now get the tone I want because the monitor speakers are running at a much lower level.


Oh so agreed.  The FOH mix was radically different and noticeably more clear without the monitor mud the first week we switched to headphones.
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Arnold B. Krueger

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Re: Much needed upgrade. Please give advice!
« Reply #63 on: July 23, 2010, 08:14:07 am »

George S Dougherty wrote on Fri, 23 July 2010 06:19

Arnold B. Krueger wrote on Thu, 22 July 2010 17:21


I like the fact that monitor spill is way down and I can actually mix their instruments as low or high as I want. I can now get the tone I want because the monitor speakers are running at a much lower level.


Oh so agreed.  The FOH mix was radically different and noticeably more clear without the monitor mud the first week we switched to headphones.


We have done our Aviom implementation in steps and took our time at each step. First was the keyboard, the player of which is also our deacon of worship and who had politicked hard for the Avioms. We worked out the 16 channel assignments with him. He was never a major source of spill because he uses a small monitor speaker that sits on top of the keyborad and is thus very close to his ears, and is off to one side.

About a month later we did the drummer. Moving him to hearphones didn't reduce spill that much because we still have to put the drums into all of the monitors. We actually added a mnnitor when we moved him onto headphones in an effort to reduce overall spill by distributing the drum into a monitor that was strategically located to dramatically reduce the average distance from the monitors to the musicans they serve. It worked out, but not dramatically.

The bass player was the first big reduction in spill and has provided the major improvement in tone in the room. Bass sound is low and thus omnidirectional. Therefore it never benefitted that much from our overall strategy of using the most directional monitors that we could afford, EV Z5-50s.

Next up: the guitar. He's been using a miced Pignose, but has asked to go back on a direct box when he gets his aviom setup.

We're using daisy chained A-Net and are disappointed to find that we have to keep the avioms at the start of the chain powered up wheteher they are being used or not, or else the signal won't pass onto the rest of the chain.

IMO, the Aviom distributors are rediculously expensive. I also look at the A16s and wonder why they have to be so expensive, as tiny as they are. Well, good things can come in small packages.

The Aviom system has produced a large increase in cabling that is underfoot. I'd like to be able to afford the Anet distributor that also handles power for that reason.
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Kent Thompson

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Re: Much needed upgrade. Please give advice!
« Reply #64 on: July 24, 2010, 07:55:11 pm »

Arnold B. Krueger wrote on Thu, 22 July 2010 19:21

Jordon King wrote on Thu, 22 July 2010 19:11

Also any of you guys have any recommendations on headphones or in ears for the bass player and drummer?  The drummer and bass player especially are kind of reluctant on switching to in ear monitors.


I have a couple of musicans using Sennheiser HD 280s and another one using Audio Technica ATH-A700s. I found them refurbed on the web for around $65 in like new condition.

Our migration to Aviom seems to making everybody happy.

Our keyboard guy likes making his own mix, while the the drummmer and the bass guy pretty much just listen to themselves. Everbody likes the isolation of headphones seemingly as much as being able to do their own monitor mix.

I like the fact that monitor spill is way down and I can actually mix their instruments as low or high as I want. I can now get the tone I want because the monitor speakers are running at a much lower level.

I personally have a set of HD 280s and the church has a set of HD 280s. My set is falling apart. The churches set seems to be holding up(their set is newer) but, I have heard of some other peoples headphones breaking(headband). They sound pretty good but, the ones I have at least seem to be breaking apart and buying the repair parts were cost prohibitive.

I use to use them when I played bass. The set the church owns the drummers use. If they came with a straight cord instead of coiled it might be better as well.
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Jordon King

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Re: Much needed upgrade. Please give advice!
« Reply #65 on: August 06, 2010, 02:05:35 pm »

I think we've decided to go the route of some custom molded in ears from fidelity.  Also, as far as the mixing goes, we will be going with the studiolive 24.4.2.  We feel that the operators will feel more comforatable with this option.

Thanks for all the help!  I will let you all know how it sounds upon installation.  We should start purchasing in the next week or two.    
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Much needed upgrade. Please give advice!
« Reply #65 on: August 06, 2010, 02:05:35 pm »


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