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Author Topic: Digital Mixers... Considering possibilities  (Read 11191 times)

Mark Simpson

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Digital Mixers... Considering possibilities
« on: June 13, 2010, 10:05:10 am »

My personal system is getting close to the point where maybe I can start hiring it/me out for live events.. I currently have a mackie 24/4 I bought new many years ago, which is in great shape, but I'd like something with 32ch or more capability and the idea of on board effects/dynamics and recall/automation is attractive..

I've been taking a look out there at used digital mixers.. And see that what was once very pricey is now pretty cheap, which is the way digital goes with everything I guess....

Original Yamaha 02r and 03d mixers are pretty cheap, often going for less than $400 or $500... Mackie d8b's going for a few hundred as well...

These mixers were all intended for project studio use though.. I'm not sure why the D8b's are so cheap, but they are.. Perhaps there were problems with these boards?

Anyways, I am really interested in possibly saving up for a used 02r or 03D.. But the problem with both mixers is 'mic inputs'... The 02r comes with 8 mic pres and 8 balanced line ins ad 4 card slots.. Similar thing with the 03d..

I see many of these boards include expansion cards adding an additional 8 line ins or ADAT lightpipe  or AES/EBU...

I would want to use them for live work as well as recording... meaning that for live stuff, 8 mic pres ain't gonna get it done... I would need 24.. Did yamaha offer expansion cards that added mic pres? Or is the only way via outboard pres, either analog or conversion to lightpipe?

Anyone ever used these things for live stuff that could shed some light on whether they'd be worth the trouble or not...

Thanx...
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Mac Kerr

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Re: Digital Mixers... Considering possibilities
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2010, 10:42:13 am »

The only way to expand the Yamaha's number of mic pres is with external mic pres. The most cost effective, and most common, is the Behringer ADA8000 connected via an ADAT card. The ADAT expansion cards are the least expensive of all the MY cards, and are available in 16ch versions as well as 8ch. The ADA8000 is a little over $200 new. Each ADA8000 that you have gives you 8 more mic pres, as well as 8 more balanced line outs. You want to connect the ADAT for both input and output, so the ADA8000 can get its wordclock sync from the console.

The 02R and 03R were intended as project studio boards, but I think the main drawback is the lack of mic inputs. That is easily remedied. I think Arnold Krueger has been happy with his 02R.

Mac
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Mark Simpson

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Re: Digital Mixers... Considering possibilities
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2010, 11:24:01 am »

Do the Berhinger units provide phantom power? If so, this becomes a very viable solution...

I have seen 02r's go for under $300... For some reason, the 03d's go for more.....

Thanx for the reply...
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Mark Simpson

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Re: Digital Mixers... Considering possibilities
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2010, 11:30:34 am »

The other issue that might be a concern, is that most of the events I would do would be outdoors... While I would always be under an awning of some sort, light levels could still be fairly high..

How do people deal with reading lcd displays and computer monitors in daylight situations.. Seeing as so many touring companies are using digital boards now, how do they deal with this issue...

Blessings...
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Lee Buckalew

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Re: Digital Mixers... Considering possibilities
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2010, 12:32:36 pm »

Outdoors you also have, potentially, heat to deal with.  Consoles designed for indoor use may have more problems outdoors as they are designed for more controlled environments.

To answer your question about viewing displays outdoors.  This was a problem with early digitals.  All of the more recent consoles designed for touring use have more advanced displays that allow viewing in bright light, many even in direct sunlight.  This is designed into the consoles that are for touring use and it costs much more per display.  It's not available, that I know of, on any digitals below the low $20,000.00 retail mark.

Keep in mind that even though the displays are viewable in sunlight all that I am aware of can be damaged by direct sunlight over time and do require a canopy or some sort of shade to avoid this.

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Lee Buckalew
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Mac Kerr

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Re: Digital Mixers... Considering possibilities
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2010, 04:02:25 pm »

Mark Simpson wrote on Sun, 13 June 2010 11:24

Do the Berhinger units provide phantom power? If so, this becomes a very viable solution...


Yes. Lots of info available here, or here.

Mac
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Mark Simpson

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Re: Digital Mixers... Considering possibilities
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2010, 06:29:23 pm »

Mac Kerr wrote on Sun, 13 June 2010 13:02

Mark Simpson wrote on Sun, 13 June 2010 11:24

Do the Berhinger units provide phantom power? If so, this becomes a very viable solution...


Yes. Lots of info available here, or here.

Mac



Thanks for the behringer link.. Google doesn't play nice with my browser...

A nice side benefit to this thing is that it could serve as a direct front end to an ADAT.. No mixer required during tracking....
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Mark Simpson

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Re: Digital Mixers... Considering possibilities
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2010, 06:33:31 pm »

Lee Buckalew wrote on Sun, 13 June 2010 09:32

Outdoors you also have, potentially, heat to deal with.  Consoles designed for indoor use may have more problems outdoors as they are designed for more controlled environments.




And it definitely gets 'hot' here.. 100+ degree days are commonplace in the summer...

Man, there's always a catch....

Thanks for the input... I wonder what other options are out there for digital on the cheap?
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Lee Buckalew

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Re: Digital Mixers... Considering possibilities
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2010, 06:50:04 pm »

The 01V96 lists a free air maximum temperature of 35 degrees celsius (95 degrees F).
This would not tolerate a direct sun situation in temps even approaching 90 most likely.  Temps over 100 would definitely be a problem.

Check the max free air temp ratings on any gear you're considering for outdoor use.

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Lee Buckalew
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Arnold B. Krueger

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Re: Digital Mixers... Considering possibilities
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2010, 07:47:24 am »

Mac Kerr wrote on Sun, 13 June 2010 15:42


The 02R and 03R were intended as project studio boards,



I'm not sure about the 02R96 being intended for project studios.

I've been told by a lot of people that 16 mic inputs is more than enough for a lot of live sound and recording applications.

For example I point out the lack of expansion facilities on the new Presonus mixers, and people say: "So what"?

Quote:


but I think the main drawback is the lack of mic inputs.



I think that a lot of people had problems with how virtual the 02R seemed to be in many people's minds, back in the days when it was introduced.

Quote:


That is easily remedied.



Agreed. We bought our 02R96 with a pair of ADA8000s and a MY16AT since we were replacing a SR32. I shortly added an 8 channel mic preamp so that the 8 line level inputs on the 02R96 were available as mic inputs.

Quote:


I think Arnold Krueger has been happy with his 02R.



If it matters, we have an 02R96, not a 02R.

I've never seriously looked at an 02R until today, but with just 8 mic preamps, it looks like something that will quickly put you in the market for some expansion hardware. I don't see much of a used equipment market selling MY16AT cards, so the $400+ new pruce for those could nearly double the cost of expansion.

Since neither the 02R nor the 02R96 save the gain settings of the internal mic preamps with the scene, external preamps have no serious ease-of-use disadvantages as compared to the onboard preamps.

It appears that the 02R lacks some of the ease-of-use features of the 02R96.

It seems like the used equipment prices of 02r96s and DM2000s has held up very well which for the purposes of this discussion, is a disadvantage.
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Digital Mixers... Considering possibilities
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2010, 07:47:24 am »


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