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[JAOgann]

We are building a second WC (Worship Center) and plan to run simultaneous services but use only one pastor to deliver the sermon for both. There would be separate worship leaders in each WC since one might be contemporary and one traditional. It has occurred to us that synchronizing two services without disrupting one or both is going to be a problem. We plan to use a good video camera (and later several and a switcher) to capture (and record) the sermon and a good quality projector/screen in the other WC to show it. The timing/synch is the issue. What would be desirable would be a DVR style approach (when you pause a program, go get a snack and come back, playing it delayed from the incoming signal and skipping the commercials Very Happy ) but with live video. We could then plan for the sermon segment in the live WC to start slightly before the receiving WC sermon segment and just start the playback when the second WC service was ready for it. Has anyone done this with something other than a full-up $25k video server? We know a server would work but would like to do it with a less expensive approach. I am not familiar with TIVO. Would it accept HD or composite video and output it? Maybe a MAC with the right cards and software?? OR Does anyone have a better suggestion? We are short of pastors and would like the same sermon to be presented to all of the services without having the pastor run back and fourth between WC's. Thanks in advice for your help. Jim O, Marion, IA

[Jon Ersland]

I've never had any experience with doing this...but know of 2 churches that are currently.  I would check with Life church out of Oklahoma City, www.lifechurch.tv or with MarsHill church out of Seattle, www.marshillchurch.org

cheers,

-jon

[JAOgann]

Thanks Jon, I will pass that along to our pastor. He will be thrilled. Jim

[Arnold B. Krueger]

Jim Ogann wrote on Wed, 09 June 2010 13:59

We are building a second WC (Worship Center) and plan to run simultaneous services but use only one pastor to deliver the sermon for both. There would be separate worship leaders in each WC since one might be contemporary and one traditional. It has occurred to us that synchronizing two services without disrupting one or both is going to be a problem. We plan to use a good video camera (and later several and a switcher) to capture (and record) the sermon and a good quality projector/screen in the other WC to show it. The timing/synch is the issue. What would be desirable would be a DVR style approach (when you pause a program, go get a snack and come back, playing it delayed from the incoming signal and skipping the commercials Very Happy ) but with live video. We could then plan for the sermon segment in the live WC to start slightly before the receiving WC sermon segment and just start the playback when the second WC service was ready for it. Has anyone done this with something other than a full-up $25k video server? We know a server would work but would like to do it with a less expensive approach. I am not familiar with TIVO. Would it accept HD or composite video and output it? Maybe a MAC with the right cards and software?? OR Does anyone have a better suggestion? We are short of pastors and would like the same sermon to be presented to all of the services without having the pastor run back and fourth between WC's. Thanks in advice for your help. Jim O, Marion, IA

Most consumer-grade Digital Video Recorders(AKA DVRs), particularly the ones with hard drives, can concurrently record and play back a video signal. You basically start a recording, select the file that is being created for the recording and start playing it back at any time after the start of the recording process, including after the recording is completed.

TIVO is a brand of DVR that includes a monthly subscription program guide service that you don't need.

DVRs are still being sold that are suitable for your basic purpose at reasonable prices - less than $300. You can find them on the web if no place else.

You can also get video capture cards and software that implement a DVR on a PC or Mac for reasonble prices - usually less than $200.

The biggest concern I have relates to picture quality. Using a DVR limits picture quality to DVD quality which is really pretty good, but perhaps not up the quality of the best cameras and displays.

How acceptable DVD quality is to you will be dependent on the quality of your cameras and display devices. Given the difference in price between DVD quality and something appreciably better, you may want to start out with a DVR-based system and see how the basic concept works.

[Mike Stahly]

Jim,

I'm interested to know how you're going to transmit the signal to the receiving WC, or is that part of the original question?

I assume it's in a different building? Maybe a different campus?

We're planning a Satellite service this Fall. My pastor is planning on using a Slingbox for transmission over Internet. Have you looked into that?

I guess all you need on the receiving end is a computer with network card and then into a projector. Or you could go into a DVR first so you could record the service as well.

Have you talked with anyone who has tried this yet?

Mike

[JAOgann]

Thanks, our receiving site is another worship center in the same building so a simple video-over-Cat5 system is planned. I have a Slingbox and unless you have a really solid, fast internet connection and fast/dedicated PC to receive it, the quality will not be very good in my view - but you may be able to get there if you have a dedicated and fast internet connection on both ends. Hope this helps. Jim

[JAOgann]

Thanks Arnold, Your comments are very close to what I have been thinking but I need something more specific if you have it. DVD or even composite video or S-Video (SD) quality is probably OK for now. Could you recommend either a DVR Brand and model) or two that accepts raw video or a source for the PC-base hardware/software. A simple to use DVR would be best for our volunteers as well. 'Looking forward to your response - I think you are pointing toward a solution we can consider.



Jim O

[Arnold B. Krueger]

Jim Ogann wrote on Wed, 23 June 2010 03:33

Thanks Arnold, Your comments are very close to what I have been thinking but I need something more specific if you have it. DVD or even composite video or S-Video (SD) quality is probably OK for now. Could you recommend either a DVR Brand and model) or two that accepts raw video or a source for the PC-base hardware/software. A simple to use DVR would be best for our volunteers as well. 'Looking forward to your response - I think you are pointing toward a solution we can consider.

None of the DVRs I have are still on the market. I have had a Philips, a Magnavox, and a RCA. The RCA died, but the other two keep burning DVDs. Everthing I see on the web or in the stores is under $200 and looks like it would work.

I inevitably edit the DVDs we burn at church with Adobe Premiere Elements, and then burn the edited versions using it on a PC.

Any modern PC with a 200 GB hard drive, 2 GB of RAM, and a 2000 MHz or faster (multiple cores preferred) processor will work pretty well. Faster processor and a bigger hard drive are better. You typically need a firewire card to load video from MiniDV cameras.

[Mike Stahly]

Arnold B. Krueger wrote on Sun, 27 June 2010 03:18

Jim Ogann wrote on Wed, 23 June 2010 03:33 Thanks Arnold, Your comments are very close to what I have been thinking but I need something more specific if you have it. DVD or even composite video or S-Video (SD) quality is probably OK for now. Could you recommend either a DVR Brand and model) or two that accepts raw video or a source for the PC-base hardware/software. A simple to use DVR would be best for our volunteers as well. 'Looking forward to your response - I think you are pointing toward a solution we can consider. None of the DVRs I have are still on the market. I have had a Philips, a Magnavox, and a RCA. The RCA died, but the other two keep burning DVDs. Everthing I see on the web or in the stores is under $200 and looks like it would work. I inevitably edit the DVDs we burn at church with Adobe Premiere Elements, and then burn the edited versions using it on a PC. Any modern PC with a 200 GB hard drive, 2 GB of RAM, and a 2000 MHz or faster (multiple cores preferred) processor will work pretty well. Faster processor and a bigger hard drive are better. You typically need a firewire card to load video from MiniDV cameras.

Jim, Arnold is right about using a modern PC. Any Intel dual-core or core 2 duo processor will work great. If you're doing video editing, I would suggest 4 GB of RAM. I wouldn't worry too much about getting a quad-core processor. In order to take advantage of the capability, the software must be designed to make use of the multiple core functions.

[Karl P(eterson)]

I know this is very late, but hopefully Jim will see it, if nothing else someone else may see it in the future.

When dealing with Simulcasting live events, you are going to need to get into Professional Cameras, Switchers, CG/Titlers, etc.

In this day and age that means you will most likely be dealing with HD-SDI.

Everyone you will talk to that is running multiple auditoriums right now will be running SDI (either SD or HD depending on the age of the installation).

The good news about SDI today is that you have a wide variety of options to do almost anything at a variety of price points.

For SDI time delay (DVR) functionality we have two options.

You could run a Doremi MCS or GV Turbo2 (I believe the Turbo2 can play while recording, I know the MCS can) which are your traditional "professional" multi-channel video servers.

Your other option is to run some software on an appropriate computer. The most stable system I have had the pleasure to use is by a company called Softron. They sell and injest and playout system that runs on MacPros using Blackmagic Hardware. It will scale from ~10 seconds of delay to hours.

A setup using MovieRecorder and OnTheAir Video with a capable MacPro, Blackmagic Cards and a few tweaks (we like to see SSD's over spinning disks when possible on these types of systems) will only run you ~8000.

You wouldn't want to use a consumer DVR for all the overlays it has and lack of support. Live time delay systems affecting an entire sub-set of your audience is not a piece of equipment you want to be left alone support. You will also want to be using professional (SDI) formats/interconnects so that you could rent in equipment easily if needed.

For the cameras, check out Panasonic's new Camcorder Studio Systems in conjunction with the AG-HPX300 or 500. Less than 40K for lense through ccu including a basic pedestal or nice sticks.

Panasonic's switchers with built in multi-viewers are also very competent for the price.

Hope this helps someone,

Karl P

[Brian Kent Tennyson]

Again, this is something I sell so take this with a grain of salt.

HaiVision encoders and decoders work great for this application. HaiVision guarantees a 70MS encode to decode so you can place encoders and decoders in each campus and do responsive singing/reading. The pair will run about 13k for the HD version. It's a very simple setup. They also have a full range of recording and playback through their Video Furnace line.

The catch is you really need to be buying a private network connection between campus's if you are going across town. Something like a MPLS from your cable company, or telephone carrier.

I'll shut up now.

[William Sanders]

This is late but why don't you just run a line to the other sanctuary using amps to prevent the degradation of the signal? There are amps that have cat5 and audio inputs. check out extron's line of processors. but there are other solutions as far as products.

[ProSoundWeb Community]