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[John Moore]

We initially bought the TOA subs, but toasted one before install. We used the cabs and replaced them with (4) Ciare 12.00 SW drivers ($299 each just for driver) at 16 ohms to get us a 4 ohm load on our amp. They are a nice size sub, but if pushed at all pushes it beyond its limits. I would think there are some better choices for small subs than the TOA. We drive them with a QSC PL280. Low end wise with the VSX26 processor, I recall the roll off is around 125hz, so no, not much low end at all, for vocals and response down to 125 they work well, but if you want that full sound, get a sub or two. For subs, what kind of music are you doing, CD playback, etc., will help determine what you may need, 12" 15" or 18"...

[Russ Buck]

Ok after looking into this a little more, thinking I may be better off finding some main speakers that can handle the bass as well, cost wise this should be cheaper than mains and subs, and extra processor for the subs.  Can anyone give me a recomendation for a decent flyable speaker that can handle bass, and drums.  maybe not perfect as down the road we can add subs.  

[George S Dougherty]

Russ Buck wrote on Wed, 21 April 2010 07:27

Ok after looking into this a little more, thinking I may be better off finding some main speakers that can handle the bass as well, cost wise this should be cheaper than mains and subs, and extra processor for the subs.  Can anyone give me a recomendation for a decent flyable speaker that can handle bass, and drums.  maybe not perfect as down the road we can add subs.

Really, there isn't one.  If you want real bass reinforcement, even a double 15" cabinet won't hold a candle to a 2-way setup with an efficient top and subwoofers.  Anything else, unless it's properly shelved to keep out the LF content and properly limited to protect the drivers from someone cranking the LF knob on channels, is just an efficient cabinet to rotate blown drivers through.  Strong bass output for kick drums, bass guitar, music playback, etc. requires moving a lot of air, and that's not something that single cabinets are designed to do.

Better tops will provide strength down to 60Hz, but you really need strength down to at least 50Hz and better to 40Hz to do things justice.  That 10-20Hz doesn't seem like much difference, but you're at a point where one octave down from 60Hz is 30Hz.  That 10-20Hz is one to two thirds of an octave in lower notes and frequency content and makes a noticable difference if you roll a HP filter up on a system that can handle that range.

You could easily put a single 27" wide T39 in the right corner as you face the front of the sanctuary and get sufficient bass for that room.  Construction is all simple angles and square panels, pretty easy, especially if you have or can get use of a table saw.  $200 buys a kit with everything you need besides plans, plywood and finish of your choice.  The rest is about another $100-150 depending on your choice of finish.  Pickup something like a crown XTi2000 or any number of newer inexpensive power efficient amps with DSP included and you'll have everything you need to add it to your system.

[Dick Rees]

It will cost money to implement LF reinforcement in the room.  You can usually get by with the low end just letting the bass amp carry the room.  Attention must be paid to overall balance, but that shouldn't be hard given that you're in the same room all the time.  The only real difference will be the "presence" of the bass in the mix and that can be compensated for to a certain extent by sculpting the EQ of the bass amp output into the room.  It will actually tend to eliminate the "hot spots" or power alley problems associated with sub placement.


DR

[Taylor Phillips]

Hey, Russ.  I'm probably the least qualified person on here, so look for someone to correct me if I'm steering you wrong.  My parents' church uses four Yamaha BR15s hung in a center cluster for a large rectangle in warehouse space with a concrete floor, and they sound quite good.  They don't have any subs, and the bass is played through an amp on stage. Supposedly the BR series is supposed to have good 'bass reflex' and that's where Yamaha came up with the designation. I wouldn't bother with mic'ing the drums in your situation, unless they really are too quiet (which has never been a situation that I've encountered in a small church setting) or if you want to record them.

[Jonathan Johnson]

I'm not qualified to be designing flying speaker mounts, but I do want to point out that the strongest speaker mount available is still a danger and a liability if it's not also designed to withstand continuous multi-frequency vibration that the speaker cabinets will experience during normal use.

A 350-lb rating isn't going to keep a turnbuckle without a jamb nut from coming unscrewed, dropping the cabinet on someone's head. And if it's "over the piano," well, you've just lost a cabinet, a piano, and the pianists eye when a splinter goes flying out at lightning speed.

[Kevin Willis]

I think you have gotten some good advice here. I would reiterate the one point being made: if you are not comfortable rigging a significant overhead load, DON'T DO IT!!!!

Having said that, I do see a couple of areas to the left and right of the stage that you could possible wall-mount a couple of speakers. There are a lot of low-end speakers out there that will fit your budget that could easily be wall-mounted and have omnimount inserts built-in.

A couple of people mentioned adding subs and processors. I would echo that, but add that you can add those elements as your budget allows. I would definitely have a come-to-Jesus talk with your board and let them know that $1k-$2k is only just the beginning.

Hope this helps! Don't be discouraged by the dollar amount. Figure out what you need and don't be afraid to ask, maybe even outside the board.

[Russ Buck]

I'm still getting quotes and trying to figure out the best solution for new speakers.  I got a quote from a co./ guy where he wants to put eh speakers on either side of the room.  I am concerned because many people have told me this is not the best way to do it for my size room, etc.  Plus this last quote utilizes a powered sub for the crosssover of all the speakers. ( He talked about doing this to save $ from having to purchase a crossover) but he then adds $350 for a EQ.  why not spend a little bit more for a crossover that also have eq in it.  maybe $100-$150 more.

[ProSoundWeb Community]