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[Christy L Manoppo (okky)]

Mac,

thanks for the comment. My idea was how to interface the Roland's M48 Personal mixing station with a popular console like the M7CL.

Our plan was to use IEM's for our church. And in the near future, we would like to have a recording studio.

Our first plan was to use Aviom's. But because of their limited input and output count to 16ch, before we go to this, I am looking for other solutions.
I know we can use a combination of aux sends for flexibility on the inputs, but our current console does not have that capability (GL2400-40), but I would like to replace the console last on the upgrade scheme. First, old monitors to get rid of, then improve the quality of monitors by using personal mixes and IEM's, then upgrading the House mains.

You know better than I am that the S4000 and M48 can have different audio routing to the individual mixing stations.

Now, building a good recording studio will be costly. So, looking at Roland's digital snake capabilities, and to distribute that audio to somewhere else, like a post production room, imo, can bring the total cost lower.

We already have an analog snake installed, and some free conduits that we can use in the future.

But, still, let me know what you think if you are in my position. I'm still new at this world, so I am open to options and experience.

[Mac Kerr]

I have not used the M48, but despite Roland talking about 40 channels, anything I have read says 16 stereo groups. I guess you set the groups up via a computer attached to the S4000 snake, but I don't know if each M48 can have different groups, or if there are 16 global stereo groups for everyone. Also, if the stereo groups can have more than 2 input channels, where does the mixing into the groups happen?

Like the Aviom, it seems to only have 16 mix controls, but the mixes that go on those controls may be generated in the system, rather than via your console as with Aviom.

Mac

[John M Gibby]

Mac Kerr wrote on Wed, 12 May 2010 11:43

I have not used the M48, but despite Roland talking about 40 channels, anything I have read says 16 stereo groups. I guess you set the groups up via a computer attached to the S4000 snake, but I don't know if each M48 can have different groups, or if there are 16 global stereo groups for everyone. Also, if the stereo groups can have more than 2 input channels, where does the mixing into the groups happen? Like the Aviom, it seems to only have 16 mix controls, but the mixes that go on those controls may be generated in the system, rather than via your console as with Aviom. Mac

The M48 System can have 40 inputs routed into 16 mix groups.  The mixing of multiple inputs to a stereo group happens at the M-400 mixer or RCS software on a PC.  Also the M48 System can have different configurations for each M48 mixer, and the operator retains ultimate control and can remotely operate an individual M48 mixer.  Each M48 mixer config can be saved and applied to any other M48 mixer.  The feature set seems just about perfect to me, except for the the ability to listen or talkback to an individual M48 mixer.

John

[Mac Kerr]

John M Gibby wrote on Wed, 12 May 2010 13:15

The M48 System can have 40 inputs routed into 16 mix groups.  The mixing of multiple inputs to a stereo group happens at the M-400 mixer or RCS software on a PC.  Also the M48 System can have different configurations for each M48 mixer, and the operator retains ultimate control and can remotely operate an individual M48 mixer.  Each M48 mixer config can be saved and applied to any other M48 mixer.  The feature set seems just about perfect to me, except for the the ability to listen or talkback to an individual M48 mixer.

Is the mixing of the groups actually done in the attached computer, or is the control of those mixes done in the computer and the actual mixing done in the S4000 digital snake? Can you detach the computer after the mixes are set up, or does it have to be online whenever the system is in use? Is there a limit to the number of channels that can be mixed into a single stereo group?

Mac

[John M Gibby]

Mac Kerr wrote on Wed, 12 May 2010 13:38

John M Gibby wrote on Wed, 12 May 2010 13:15 The M48 System can have 40 inputs routed into 16 mix groups.  The mixing of multiple inputs to a stereo group happens at the M-400 mixer or RCS software on a PC.  Also the M48 System can have different configurations for each M48 mixer, and the operator retains ultimate control and can remotely operate an individual M48 mixer.  Each M48 mixer config can be saved and applied to any other M48 mixer.  The feature set seems just about perfect to me, except for the the ability to listen or talkback to an individual M48 mixer. Is the mixing of the groups actually done in the attached computer, or is the control of those mixes done in the computer and the actual mixing done in the S4000 digital snake? Can you detach the computer after the mixes are set up, or does it have to be online whenever the system is in use? Is there a limit to the number of channels that can be mixed into a single stereo group? Mac

I'm fairly confident the PC software just configures the patches (inputs-to-groups) and sets the levels.  I base this on the interface being identified as RS-232.  If you go to  http://www.rolandsystemsgroup.com/en/products/rss-by-roland/ personal-mixers/m-48 and click the video link you can see some pretty good vids of how they work.  The only difference I saw between using the M-400 mixer versus the RCS software is they showed setting levels in the mixer but not the PC software.  

Of course I continue to express these are my best guesses based on my research into the product.

John
I'm not a professional audio engineer, I just play one at church.

[Christy L Manoppo (okky)]

Well, I think it's good to see if I can make some screenshots of the RCS S4000 Software..
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The RCS S4000 Software, I wonder why Roland can't make it bigger.

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The M48 Editing Window

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I guess its the M48 Input Assign Window
Here I made the inputs for let's say, Drummer, he/she primarily wants to control of how the drums sound, the mix, and the others as less as possible.

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M48 Levels and Pan  Window



Sorry for the size... I forgot to resize it.

[John M Gibby]

Nice pics (but LARGE) pics Christy.  Thanks.

The more I read about the RSS M48 system the more I like it.  I just wish they had a simple interface setup for the M7CL.  The MY-16-AE to SO-AES setup sounds like a potentially complicated solution.  There is a lot to be said for something that is simple and works, even if it doesn't have bells and whistles of other competitors.  

I'll just keep watching this issue until God blesses us with the ability to proceed.

John

[Mac Kerr]

John M Gibby wrote on Thu, 13 May 2010 17:25

Nice pics (but LARGE) pics Christy.  Thanks. The more I read about the RSS M48 system the more I like it.  I just wish they had a simple interface setup for the M7CL.  The MY-16-AE to SO-AES setup sounds like a potentially complicated solution.  There is a lot to be said for something that is simple and works, even if it doesn't have bells and whistles of other competitors

It is not complicated, it just requires the DB25 to XLR cables to connect it up. These can be purchased from Yamaha, or built by any one of a number of cable companies like Wireworks or Ramtech. It would be more elegant if the S-4000H FOH was available with digital in and outs instead of analog.

Mac

[John M Gibby]

Found another article of Roland's digital snake products interfacing with yamaha digital boards.  Not a whole lot of detail, but looks like it is being done.

http://www.rolandsg.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&t ask=view&id=253&Itemid=325

John

[Mac Kerr]

John M Gibby wrote on Wed, 19 May 2010 11:22

Found another article of Roland's digital snake products interfacing with yamaha digital boards.  Not a whole lot of detail, but looks like it is being done.  http://www.rolandsg.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&t ask=view&id=253&Itemid=325 John

Hmmm... Since Jon Laterza is an old friend I'll have to ask him about it.

Mac

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