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[Kevin Lewins]

We currently experience bleed from the rest of the stage instruments through the piano mics, the setup is as follows.

   X2 Rode NT3 Condensers, both are on boom stands, one over the high strings, and one over the low.
   Yamaha Baby Grand with the lid on small stick, lid is facing towards the stage rather than the congregation although due to space constraints I can’t turn it the other way.

There isn’t any stage amps’ pointing towards the open lid and it is very unlikely all musicians will switch to IEM’s.

Does anyone have any advice for a better way of micing the piano with a noisy stage?

I am looking at purchasing either some new mic’s or some baffling/screening.

The other option is to close the lid and mic inside with some Velcro or something to the lid, anyone have experience of closed lid micing?

I have seen 2 possible options for mic’s, either a boundary type inside with the lid closed or a bar which bridges the between the sides of the piano and has mounting brackings for some small condensers.

Thanks

[Dick Rees]

This situation is discussed monthly on the LAB.  The most common solution is to position an SM57 in the second or third hole (from the keyboard)....holes being in the metal lyre on the treble side.  To choose the optimum hole, simply stick your head in there, cup your ear with your hand and select the hole which sounds the best to you.  The tone will be better than you think and the ratio of desired sound (DS) to unwanted sound (US) will be as high as you can get without going to a transducer or pickup system, both of which are much more expensive and may still have tone issues.

If you need to go with the lid closed you can lay an SM58 on a piece of foam in approximately the same place but pointed towards the hole (and the keyboard) rather than in the hole.  I usually position a 57 such that the black ring is exactly in the hole with the face of the element even with the surface of the lyre.

http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/t/51383/19468/

[John M Gibby]

This is an area I continue to work at from week to week.  Partly due to the fact that our baby grand doesn't sound that great to begin with and frequently goes out of tune.  

It seems there are a myriad of ways to mic a piano and I am amazed at some of the techniques.  I would say your biggest problem is having the lid open and facing the stage.  That opening is just funneling the sound to your mics.  If you absolutely cannot alleviate the orientation of the piano, then I think you must either close the lid or consider a pickup solution like a Barcus Berry pickup.  The problem I have heard with pickups is they are very accurate and colorless, And if your piano doesn't sound decent to begin with, it will only reproduce the crappiness of your piano.  With mics you can, within your budget, pic a mic that compliments the instrument to produce a pleasing sound.

I have used SDCs with relatively good success on a piano with the lid closed.  And I have also seen the clamp bars used to provide a mount for mics directly over the strings.  But before you go that route I would tinker with some gaffers tape to hold the mics and determine if you like it.  I remember seeing on American Idol either last year or before where they had gaffed a AKG C414B suspended over the bass strings.

Many have also said the Shure Beta 91 works really nice on the lid, either singly or in pairs.  They give great GBF and sound nice.  Probably any PZM would do that though.

I have even gotten a nice sound from different pianos by laying a mic on some padding in the curve with the lid closed.  

It all comes down to the fact each piano is different and you'll just have to experiment and find what works.  Let us know what you find and if you come up with something unique, take some pictures and/or upload a recording.

John

[Frank DeWitt]

I have the same setup right down to the Yamaha Baby Grand. I picked up the drums better then the piano with a mic under the open lid. After trying a bunch of things I settled on a mic under the piano.

Lay under there on your back and look at the piano.  There are a number of large frame pieces.  I chose a triangle about 12 in on a side formed by the frame members and put the head of a mic on a short stand right up in the triangle but not touching the piano.

The frame blocks a lot of sound coming from the sides

It helps that the piano is on carpet. You will find that you need a good quality mic.

The results are amazing.  The piano sounds good in the system and I pick up very little of the rest of the stage.

Frank

[Arnold B. Krueger]

John M Gibby wrote on Tue, 01 December 2009 15:25

Many have also said the Shure Beta 91 works really nice on the lid, either singly or in pairs.  They give great GBF and sound nice.  Probably any PZM would do that though.

We do that. Caveat - it takes a lot of equalizing to get a natural sound from inside the piano.

Also have good experiences what another poster said about pointing a SDC up at the bottom of the piano at a strategic location determined by ear. I put mine on a desk stand. I surveyed the location by scooting around on the floor under the piano on my back.

[John M Gibby]

I don't want to take over the thread as I love this sort of stuff.  But I am interested in what techniques/mics have found the best success with the low end of the spectrum on piano.

Thanks,
John

[Mike Stahly]

We had a Barcus Berry on our Baby Grand but it took hours of playing with the position until we found just the right spot. And still it wasn't the best sound.

We finally bought a Helpinstill magnetic pickup and after a few adjustments to the control box, positions of the pickups and the EQ we've got a nice, even sound with absolutely no stage bleed from the other instruments.

Yes, it is accurate but I wouldn't say colorless. It works very well with a contemporary band.

http://www.helpinstill.com/

[Arnold B. Krueger]

John M Gibby wrote on Tue, 01 December 2009 20:44

I don't want to take over the thread as I love this sort of stuff.  But I am interested in what techniques/mics have found the best success with the low end of the spectrum on piano.

Two words: Parametric Equalization.

[Kent Thompson]

We have been using a shure 98D/S. It has great gain before feedback. I use the clamp to attach it to the harp then bend the goosneck to the spot I want it. I can even close the lid if I so desire since it has no stand and is a very small microphone. I just run the cable down the leg of the piano and no one can even tell it has a microphone on it...except that it gets louder now.

[David Sumrall]

I've been having success with this setup for several years....

Lid Closed.

2 AKG 414

Using steal mic clamp mounts on the bars.

Close to the hammers evenly distanced from each other width wise.

Gets the attack and lots of volume before feedback of the piano doe FOH and mons.

Cables taped into piano bars so not on strings and lid can close without hurting.

Gets rid of mic stands, makes for a fast flexible setup if the piano needs to be moved, with consistent sound all the time. Still works well if lid has to be opened for some reason.

Using this setup for full orch setup, band, choir etc.

Good luck!

David

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