Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Chris Skelnik]

For our new facility, I'm definitely going to include some power sequencers.  But, I've never configured this type of setup, so advice and help is appreciated.

Let me also say that while I know there are a few companies out there that make good sequencers, we can get some very good prices on Furman components, so I'd like to equate any suggested equipment to the Furman equivilent.

Here's the plan:

I'll have the board and a few components at FOH.

I'll have a total of 6 amplifiers to drive FOH mains and subs.

I'll have a total of 2 amplifiers to drive floor monitors.  We do have an Aviom system, but we still use a couple wedges, hence the monitor amps.

All the amps will be racked just off the side of the platform.  I'll also have a few other components in the rack - Aviom distribution unit, x-over/EQ for mains/subs, etc.  This room has four 20-amp receptacles for all the rack gear.  It also houses the subpanel for all-things-audio, so I could hard-wire directly into that as well.  The panel is about 10 feet away from where the rack will be placed.

So, I'd like to be able to use a keyed switch in the booth (using something like an RS-1), and have it power up FOH (using something like a PS-8R II), then power up the non-amp stuff in the rack in the room off the stage, then finally power up the amps.

In terms of initial startup, is it OK to have groups of 2 power amps startup at the same time?  IOW, start 2...wait a few seconds...start 2...wait a few seconds...etc.  Will starting 2 power amps concurrently be too much initial draw for a 20-amp circuit? I think it'll be OK, but wanted to check.

Since I'll have 4 20-amp circuits available, it would seem to make sense that I'd have 2 amps per circuit (and probably put the non-amp stuff on the same circuit as my floor monitor amps, since I may not be using both floor monitor amps all the time anyway).  Any recommendations on which Furman components I should get to make this happen?

On one hand, I could go big, and get a PowerLink at FOH, a PS-8R II at FOH, and 4 PS-PRO II units in the amp-room.  Or, replace the 4 PS-PRO II units with one hard-wired ASD-120 Sequenced Power Distribution unit.  Guess I'm looking to see what others have done with similar setups.

OK, final question (for now):  wiring.  Not AC wiring, but the low-voltage wiring from a remote switch to the sequencer (or multiple sequencers).  In some of the Furman doc, they say you can use standard AWG 24-28 telephone wire.  Is that what you folks use, or do you use something else?

Thanks...

Chris

[Dick Rees]

Chris....

I'll let others chime in on all your initial questions.  I can say on the issue of the wiring gauge for the keyed remote switch that Furman is absolutely correct.  Such gauged wiring has often been used for 24v or 48v taps for running door bells.....in the old days.

But check on your local regs.  Around here it changed a couple of years ago.  It is now required to be certified in low-voltage electronics to even run a cable handling a mere 12v.

As for the start-up draw on two amps:

Plug them both in to a circuit of the amperage you'll have available.  Then turn them on at the same time and see what happens.........

[Tom Young]

As to whether or not the breaker will trip with 2 amps being fired up at once; it depends on the amps. In general; newer amps are designed to not suck-out a huge amount of current upon starting. A secondary issue is the size of the amp. But the bottom line is (as Dick said): try it and see what happens.

Do not sweat the wire gauge for the control signal. If that's what Furman recommends, use that. Or you can go larger if you want. But it is not necessary.

Also be aware that the high voltage (110VAC) work must be done by a licensed eletrician. This is like rigging: do not bluff yourself into thinking you can do it yourself. This is a "life safety" issue and carries rather significant legal (not to mention moral) liabiity.

As to what I use: I use and endorse SurgeX products for *both* the superior engineering/design of their surge protection and also the overall design and build quality of their productsin general (aka: reliability). All of my system designs employ SurgeX for surge protection and power sequencing. I am quite sure they cost more (but not sure how much) than Furman.

I know of nothing wrong with the Furman sequencing system and am in the process of adding some of their devices to an existing Lyntec sequencing system for a project I am engineering.

HTH-

[Arnold B. Krueger]

Chris Skelnik wrote on Mon, 14 September 2009 21:34

I'll have a total of 2 amplifiers to drive floor monitors.  We do have an Aviom system, but we still use a couple wedges, hence the monitor amps.

I've got 2 amps on the same circuit as powers our sound booth  which includes 2 video projectors, 2 recorders, 2 computers, a lighting console, other small items, and a digial console. It's all switched by a single switch that controls most of the power for the booth. Never had a problem with tripping breakers.

Our amp stack for the platform monitors is composed of 3 power amps for six stage monitors on a single ordinary power switch so they also snap on at the same time. This circuit also serves a number of other smaller functions.  Never had a problem with tripping breakers over there, either.

I think the advice to try a dry run before you invest in expensive power sequencing hardware is a good one. I think I may be able to predict the outcome...

[Chris Skelnik]

Thanks everyone!

We don't yet have any of our new power amps, so I can't yet 'try it before I buy' - but I will.     I'm just trying to come up with some final cost numbers for this last part.

We have an electrical crew working now to hang the stage lighting,  and we have some licensed electricians in our congregation.  If we need to go hard-wired for any of this solution, I'm definitely NOT the guy to do it.  But, from the comments so far, I don't think I'll need to go overboard.

If I have one power sequencer in the booth, and another one or two back in the amp-room, it seems that I'll be fine.

We've scheduled our first service in this new part of the building for Thanksgiving.  Our line-arrays, subs, and rack-o-amps are scheduled to be delivered in about 3 weeks.  Once everything is in, I'll be able to test and determine our requirements for power sequencers.

In the meantime, I'll make sure we've pulled some low-voltage cable from the booth to the amp-room, so that it'll be there when we decide what we're going to do regarding power sequencers.

[Gary Creely]

Tom Young wrote on Mon, 14 September 2009 18:15

As to what I use: I use and endorse SurgeX products for *both* the superior engineering/design of their surge protection and also the overall design and build quality of their productsin general (aka: reliability). All of my system designs employ SurgeX for surge protection and power sequencing. I am quite sure they cost more (but not sure how much) than Furman.

I was looking over their line and it seems they focused more on the power conditioning and surge protection end. Furman seems to be more about sequencing, and remote sequencing.  

SurgeX seems like an appealing line, but from what I could tell they only had a few sequencing options. Are the sa15 or sa20 able to be controlled on and off remotely?

[Tom Young]

Gary-

SurgeX has been primarily a surge protection device design company from Day #1. They have consulted with some of the foremost specialists in audio system power and I have observed how well their surge protection works on a few occasions. Top notch.

Sequential power was added to some of their products perhaps 6-8 years ago.

I consider the quality (reliability) of their products to be very good, as is the tech support.

I do not know the product line well enough (by memory) to advise you and I am too swamped right now to look up the specs.

Wish I could be more helpful-

[ProSoundWeb Community]