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Author Topic: Kramer 711N/712N over CAT3??  (Read 8918 times)

Kristian Stevenson

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Kramer 711N/712N over CAT3??
« on: February 16, 2009, 03:58:40 pm »

My question is whether those adapters will work over CAT3. The reason I ask thisis because the only two peices of conduit that were put in between our new building and Sanctuary building house a fiber line (for data) and a CAT3. The guy we deal with that installs our phone system and data saystem said that there is no way we can run a new piece of CAT5 in these conduits.

With that said, my other option is to get a different adapter that will allow us to use our LAN to send the Audio/video feed to the new building from our sanctuary because I was informed that the kramer 711n/712n could not.

It would be nice If we could uses the existing cat3, if those adapters will work with that twist rate.

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Karl P(eterson)

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Re: Kramer 711N/712N over CAT3??
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2009, 12:55:13 am »

As expensive as this may be, maybe you want to pull out the cat 3 and install cat 5? In my past experience cat 3 applications are generally pretty insensitive to splicing so you could splice the cat 3 on each end with cat 5 in the middle. If you rip and replace there is a good chance you can get that one more line.

Hope this helps,

Karl P
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Mark Templeton

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Re: Kramer 711N/712N over CAT3??
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2009, 06:07:30 pm »

Hi Kristian,

Is your current network GigE?



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Mark Templeton

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Re: Kramer 711N/712N over CAT3??
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2009, 08:29:08 pm »

Kristian,

Cat3 is not going to work because of bandwidth limitations (10mbps). As for as using fiber to jump between buildings, most CATx baluns/extenders do not use ethernet protocol to packetize their video signal and therefore they will not work with Ethernet devices and are not compatible with existing network infrastructure.

My company manufactures a multichannel, HD video over Ethernet solution. Using JPEG2000 compression, we are able to send up to 6 visually-lossless HD video + audio streams over a single CATx cable (fiber with off-the-shelf adapters). JPEG2000 compression is conducive to live video applications, because of the relatively low latency of our product (3 frames/50ms). While our solution is more expensive than a CATx extender, we offer multichannel capability (w/o a matrix switcher), the flexibility to expand to an unlimited number of displays, and the ability to incorporate advancing LAN technologies into our system (i.e wireless, LAN over Powerline, LAN over Coax).

Check out www.easysignage.net for more info or feel free to ask me any questions you may have.
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Brad Weber

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Re: Kramer 711N/712N over CAT3??
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2009, 10:59:44 pm »

Mark Templeton wrote on Mon, 30 March 2009 20:29

Cat3 is not going to work because of bandwidth limitations (10mbps).

Can you please explain this?  I don't see how data bandwidth is relevant since it is an analog signal being transmitted, all the extenders are doing is physically interfacing to the physical UTP cable (it is actually more correctly referred to as video over UTP since it is the twisted pair that is the critical factor).  In fact for video over UTP applications CAT5 is preferred over CAT5e which is better than CAT6 due to the related skew, so the rated cable bandwidth is not necessarily a good indicator for this type of application.  CAT3 and CAT5 are both UTP cable with 24AWG solid copper conductors and I believe use the same TIA/EIA wiring scheme and connectors.  While the greater attenuation, capacitance and skew of CAT3 may limit the run length possible, I'm not clear why it couldn't potentially work.  Am I overlooking something?

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Brad Weber
muse Audio Video
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Mark Templeton

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Re: Kramer 711N/712N over CAT3??
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2009, 10:13:21 am »

You are correct, it might be possible for the baluns to use the CAT3.

The part about using the LAN is what triggered the CAT3 bandwidth limitation comment. I wasn't quite sure how the CAT3 tied into the LAN, but after re-reading, I see the CAT3 is independent of the LAN.




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Kristian Stevenson

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Re: Kramer 711N/712N over CAT3??
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2009, 09:21:50 pm »

We got the adapters in and installed and the system works perfectly!! thanks for the help guys!
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Brian Kent Tennyson

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Re: Kramer 711N/712N over CAT3??
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2009, 01:54:51 pm »

Cat-3 (like cat 5e and 6) is a 8 conductor cable. The difference is in the skew rate and the gauge. With the Kramer (or any other video over twisted pair baluns) you might actually benefit from the lower skew rate but you could lose distance because of the lower gauge of cable.

Sounds like you are doing fine but that would be my understanding of the pitfalls.
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Arnold B. Krueger

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Re: Kramer 711N/712N over CAT3??
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2009, 06:13:19 pm »

Brian Kent Tennyson wrote on Tue, 07 April 2009 18:54

Cat-3 (like cat 5e and 6) is a 8 conductor cable. The difference is in the skew rate and the gauge. With the Kramer (or any other video over twisted pair baluns) you might actually benefit from the lower skew rate but you could lose distance because of the lower gauge of cable.

Sounds like you are doing fine but that would be my understanding of the pitfalls.


I suspect that the outcome of this situation would be different if the video being transmitted was 1080 HD video via HDMI.

The Kramer 711 is sending composite + audio, which has a relatively low bandwidth. It's probably just several baluns.

Audio is actually what CAT3 was designed for, and composite video has relatively low bandwidth compared to more modern formats.
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Kristian Stevenson

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Re: Kramer 711N/712N over CAT3??
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2009, 11:01:45 pm »

Ok so i have had this system in place for quite some time and it works great. (when it is working)

I have had to send the kramer units back once because I lost signal. something wrong with the transmitter. Got them back and they worked great again.

We are having a large funeral service tomorrow and will possibly need to use the overflow system. I turned the system on today and poof, nothing going to the overflow room. I just got through doing about 45mins of signal tracking and troubleshooting. I ended up back at the sound board hooking the two units together with a single cat5 and still nothing.

My question is whether the 300+ bucks on the two kramer units was money well spent. I need something reliable. I havent contacted kramer yet. Trying to figure out something to get us through tomorrow. Im planning on pulling out the coax and amplifiers for a temporary setup.

Is there something I could be doing wrong that are messing these units up like this?
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Kristian Stevenson

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Re: Kramer 711N/712N over CAT3??
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2009, 12:28:21 pm »

I ended up using a video capture card and windows media encoder to stream it over our LAN. Why didnt anyone suggest this beforehand?? It seems to work great....
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Kramer 711N/712N over CAT3??
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2009, 12:28:21 pm »


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