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[A.J. McGlynn]

I have an M7 and 2 UX8800's Love them both. Great pieces of gear. For some reason the company who installed the system set the system up using the omni outs. My question is. Is it better for me to run my system all digital. I would have to buy an expansion card but I am thinking it might be worth it.

We are running a LCR system which makes it hard for me to use the 2 track AES outs on the board.

Also the processors are on stage which is about 100' worth of cable away. Can I run wordclock that far?

I have been thinking about doing a test by running my Left and right clusters with the digital outs.

I am just trying to see if this is worth the trouble or if I should just leave it as is.

[Brad Weber]

Using AES would eliminate a D/A and A/D conversion and the related latency.  Im not clear on the word clock question as there is no separate word clock, only the clocking embedded in the AES3 signals, which should be fine at 100' with the right cable.  However, that may be an issue, since they have it setup as analog did they run cable rated for AES/EBU signals?  IF you have to replace the cabling or run new cabling that may enter into your decision.

[A.J. McGlynn]

Thanks Brad,

I wasn't thinking. I knew I didnt need wordclock because there is not wordclock on the UX8800. I just wasnt thinking that one through.

The cable is rated for AES. it has it written on the cable.

Thanks. I will try it tomorrow and see how it sounds.

[David Sumrall]

Hey AJ,

Another thing to consider or at least plan to deal with is delay time.

The timing of the signal will more then likely change just a smidgen.

So you might need to plan for.....

1. Some overall system delay adjustments.

2. Some adjusts to allow for time alignment of any of the digital signals that "might" have to align with any analog signals if those are being used.

Like adjusting the analog Center to align with the digital LR.

ie...aux fed subs, front fills, hallway bgm

If any of these are coming into one of the dsps from other then the stereo omnis then you might want to consider getting more AES cards for those. Sorry I cant remember how many inputs the yammaha inputs cards have.

Levels differences will probably need to taken into account as well in the dsp inputs.

Also be sure to store the new routing in another scene on your desk so you can go back easily after your experiment. And don't write over your current setting in the dsp.

What is the PA??? What amps? are things digital from the dsp to the amps?? Those pieces will play some into how much of a difference you notice.

Cutting out conversions is definitely better.

We have experimented with this as well coming off an M7 AES into digital amps. It was a little better and seemed cleaner. Needing the card slots to stay flexible for our desks has led us to stick with the regular omnis.

Let us know how it turns out.

Good luck!

David

[A.J. McGlynn]

Yeah If I do it it will only be an experiment till I can get cards. I wont do it during a service. There are no front fills or anything.

The PA is

Amps (chosen before I came on staff and they are not right for the job. The DSP in the amps is bypassed)
9 XTI 1000 Tops
1 XTI 4000 Subs

4 EAW AX366
2 EAW AX344
2 EAW SB1000


3 of the xtis are stereo for the Highs
6 xtis Bridged for the lows

if I have time I am going to try this tomorrow. I am just not going to use the center cluster during my test so I dont have to worry about level differences. Thanks for the help guys. This should be way easier than I thought.

[A.J. McGlynn]

Ok Here is what I did to test.

I setup my left cluster as AES and the right cluster analog. I A-B'd them and WOW there was a much bigger difference than I ever would have imagined only it wasn't the direction I would have thought. The analog route sounded so much cleaner, had punchy lows and crisp highs. The digital route just sounded thin and a little noisy.

Could I have done something wrong or is this what I should have expected?

[Mac Kerr]

A.J. McGlynn wrote on Thu, 12 February 2009 13:31

Ok Here is what I did to test. I setup my left cluster as AES and the right cluster analog. I A-B'd them and WOW there was a much bigger difference than I ever would have imagined only it wasn't the direction I would have thought. The analog route sounded so much cleaner, had punchy lows and crisp highs. The digital route just sounded thin and a little noisy. Could I have done something wrong or is this what I should have expected?

I think something was wrong. I have never experienced that kind of difference when switching between analog and digital with other gear. I have not used a UX8800, but would expect the digital path to sound no worse than the analog path.due to its inherent noise immunity it is usually better.

Mac

[A.J. McGlynn]

Mac Kerr wrote on Thu, 12 February 2009 14:06

I think something was wrong. I have never experienced that kind of difference when switching between analog and digital with other gear. I have not used a UX8800, but would expect the digital path to sound no worse than the analog path.due to its inherent noise immunity it is usually better. Mac

This is what I thought too. Hmmm... now to figure out what I did wrong. I will have to figure it out another day.

[Arnold B. Krueger]

A.J. McGlynn wrote on Thu, 12 February 2009 18:31

Ok Here is what I did to test. I setup my left cluster as AES and the right cluster analog. I A-B'd them and WOW there was a much bigger difference than I ever would have imagined only it wasn't the direction I would have thought. The analog route sounded so much cleaner, had punchy lows and crisp highs. The digital route just sounded thin and a little noisy. Could I have done something wrong or is this what I should have expected?

Your general symptom could be a level match problem. This is not unusual in a quick digital/analog comparison.

[David Sumrall]

yep could be your level, as posted before in the things to check.

The digital signal level is going to be hotter, and gain structure might change as well.

Something might be clipping somewhere.

Or there might be some compression or limiting going on in the dsp that now has a hotter input.

Plus remember your dsp settings as far as eq etc were made to fix the analog sound. You might need different settings for the digi version.

Good luck!

David

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