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Author Topic: Digico SD8  (Read 16356 times)

Oran Burns

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Digico SD8
« on: December 31, 2008, 10:42:02 am »

Hey,
Has anyone got any experience using the new Digico SD8?
Im curious to know how it is performing?
How does it compare to the M7CL?
Regards,
Oran
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Oran Burns
Live Sound Coordinator
Grace Fellowship Church
www.gracefellowship.ie

Brad Weber

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Re: Digico SD8
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2008, 02:30:45 pm »

Oran Burns wrote on Wed, 31 December 2008 10:42

How does it compare to the M7CL?

Well, list price for the SD8 is twice that of an M7CL-48.  Very Happy

Although that large a cost difference would seem to be a factor in any comparison and I have not actually seen or used an SD8 yet but any comparison implies some basis for the comparison, so is there anything in particular that you are wanting to compare?
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Brad Weber
muse Audio Video
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Karl P(eterson)

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Re: Digico SD8
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2008, 02:49:05 pm »

Brads question is dead on. For twice the price its obviously going to be better, or at very least should be.

You need to tell us why you are comparing these two before we can give you any decent help.

If you are looking for people who have used them there are some people who have already purchased, received and posted their impressions of the console on the main LAB board and the SR Reviews sub forum. I would go there for their first impressions.

I can tell you as a company and generic reference I very much like Digico products and the company. But that is me, in my situation, and with my criteria of needs. Yours may (will?) differ.

Karl P
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Aaron McQueen

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Re: Digico SD8
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2008, 03:05:31 pm »

There's a thread over in the LAB about the SD8:

SD8 Thread
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Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God - Romans 10:17 NKJV

Oran Burns

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Re: Digico SD8
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2008, 07:17:16 pm »

Gentlemen,
My church will be moving building this year and an M7 CL or maybe a SD 8 will be a FOH option.
I did not realize that the SD8 was twice the price of the M7 CL, i thought that there was a "few" thousand in the difference.
In my mind with Live Digital consoles there is what i call an acceptable level.
In my opinion some of the cheaper digital consoles sound "digital".
They have a particular sound to them, it doesn't sound natural and all the processing can be heard.
I understand that "you get what you pay for"
In my opinion the acceptable level for digital consoles is when you listen and you dont really know whether it is a digital or analog console.
D Show Profile is well above the "acceptable level" and in my opinion the M7 CL falls below it.
It doesn't sound natural and the processing is audible.
So what im getting at is whether the SD 8 is above the "acceptable level"
Is it the cheapest digital console on the market that doesn't sound digital?
Even the Roland V mixer (which is cheaper than the M7 CL) made a good attempt at reaching the "acceptable level"
Regards,
Oran
p.s. i will review the SD 8 thread, the purpose of this "new topic" was to get some feedback from people in churches who are using the SD 8.

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Oran Burns
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Grace Fellowship Church
www.gracefellowship.ie

Ivan Beaver

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Re: Digico SD8-Acceptable level?
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2008, 08:08:14 pm »

I am confused by your definition of "acceptable level".  There are many different factors regarding digital consoles.  Functionality is one of the biggest differences.

If your defintion of acceptable level is sound quality, then could you give us a few examples of what is and is not up to that "level"?

Are you sure you are are not confusing a dry/sterile/uncolored type sound with one that has "warmth"?  And is not the one with "warmth" actually coloring the sound?

I have installed many hundreds of digital consoles (mostly Yamaha-from the the 01v up to PM5d) and have not yet experienced what I would call a "digital sound".

Then again, maybe by the time you put a console into a large room, with multiple loudspeakers, general acoustic issues, loud HVAC and amature musicians the "subtle neuances" of the console go away. Laughing

Personally I would be much more concerned with the quality of your loudspeaker system than the "sound" of your console.
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Karl P(eterson)

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Re: Digico SD8
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2008, 09:47:57 pm »

Woops, I meant to post this a few hours ago and forgot to hit the button....

A few things:

There is nothing wrong with the M7.

While I agree that the main D/A's aren't the greatest in the world one could argue that only matters in rooms with well above average PA's. If you do have an above average PA all you need is a better D/A which could be done in the system processor or a dedicated device.

Let me repeat that again. There is nothing wrong with the M7.

That said I have a Digico D1 and it works and sounds great. While it doesn't have the plugins that the Venue platform does, it easily sounds just as good. It is also a very standards compliant desk, so that is nice as well.

The early reviews I have heard say the SD8 sounds just as good as the D1/D5.

All that said, whether you use an LS9, an M7 or an SD8 is, to me, a question of needs, budget, and how this piece fits in the entire system.

If you really, truly, need 56+ channels then a large format surface is a pretty good place to start.

If you have a top of the line PA that sounds fantastic and you also have the money to spend on the SD8 with the talent to run it - then go ahead and get one.

If you don't have a world class PA, buy an M7 and spend the difference on PA.

If you don't have a great PA and can barely afford the M7, then buy an LS9 and spend the difference on the PA.

If you have to buy a 1v and spend the difference on the PA.

Do you get my drift here?

I will quite literally mix on a Behringer if it means I can get a good PA.

The choice of PA and all the A/V/L infrastructure is what should be concerning you now, not the choice of mixers. A mixer should be an easy decision that can be made at any time based on need and budget. Any mixer from a reputable manufacturer will "sound" just fine and they should all work and perform equally well.


Karl P
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Digico SD8-Console "sounds"
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2009, 12:01:04 pm »

Fully agreed.  When it comes to a sound system, the worst performing piece of gear is the loudspeaker system-by far.

I am willing to cut costs in all kinds of places in order to keep the loudspeaker system the best the budget will allow.

Once everything else is "perfect"-including the room itself-THEN I would worry about which console sounds "digital".

Console choice should be more about FUNCTION and real needs, than anything else.

My console choices for a particular customer are based on what they need-along with the reliability of consoles- that meet those needs.

I can honestly say that in the last almost one thousand installs, the "sound" of the console has never come into play.  And we have never had anybody complain about the "sound" of the console.
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Can I have some more talent in the monitors--PLEASE?

Ivan Beaver
dB Audio & Video Inc.

Oran Burns

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Re: Digico SD8-Console "sounds"
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2009, 01:24:38 pm »

Folks,
To try and explain better what i am talking about let me share this "real life" experience with you.
My church (where i do sound) has an analog Soundcraft GB 8 console.
We have various bits of outboard mainly Klark technik Square One dynamics, some DBX comps and TC M-One reverbs.
One day about 18 months ago i took in an M7 CL to try it out. So i replaced the GB 8 at FOH with the Yamaha board.
I spent all day Saturday setting up and playing with the board to get it ready for Sunday morning service.
I sound checked the worship group on the Sunday morning and was ready to go for 2 services that day.
When worship started i knew within 30 seconds that this was not the board for me.
I didn't like what i heard at all. There was a particular sound to it which is hard to describe.
Un-natural, clinical, harsh, comes to mind.
It was as if all the processing in the board could be heard and it didn't sound natural at all.
Even the GB 8 which i was used to hearing in this environment gave off a more neutral sound.
I did enjoy all the features on the board and was happy with how i got worship sounding that morning, it was just the overall sound quality that i didn't like.
So the conclusion that i came to was that unless you have a few quid to spend then a digital console is not the best choice.
D Show Profile which i know is more expensive than the M7 CL does not have a "sound" to it. It sounds natural and doesn't color things like the M7 does.

So the "acceptable level" in my opinion is above the M7 because those consoles like the D Show, PM-5, Digico D series etc sound natural and you dont hear the sound of audio being processed.
So unless you can afford one of these consoles then in my opinion you are better off
sticking with an analog board as even a budget analog board like the GB 8 sounds neutral.
The LS 9 has the same issues (except much worse)
I mean if i was in the installation business i would happily install these boards if they suited the application and budget.
But my job is to make things sound good!
Im surprised to hear that some of you folk have done multiple installations of M7s and LS9s and never heard a complaint about the sound of the board!
Do people not listen anymore?
Or do the many features available hide some stuff?
In Ireland i regularly hear complaints about the sound of the M7 and particularly the LS 9.
Regards,
Oran

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Oran Burns
Live Sound Coordinator
Grace Fellowship Church
www.gracefellowship.ie

Ivan Beaver

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Re: Digico SD8-Console "sounds"
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2009, 02:59:00 pm »

Is it the console or the "system" or how it is aligned/setup etc that  you are hearing?

I have no problem with the M7 or the LS9 or even the less expensive Yamaha digital consoles.

People may be complaining, but are they legitimate complaints?  It is an all to common situation in which people who do not know how to mix complain about the equipment.  If only they had "so and so" it would sound better.  NO it wouldn't!

I can't count the number of times I have run into this.  Yet a different operator on the exact same rig the same day can get a good "sound".  Somehow I don't think the console "changed sound" from band to band.

I have heard heard a couple of side by side comparisoms in which two consoles sounded different.

HOWEVER when they were setup the same, those differences went away.  Can you say "fixing" the demo?
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Can I have some more talent in the monitors--PLEASE?

Ivan Beaver
dB Audio & Video Inc.

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Digico SD8-Console "sounds"
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2009, 02:59:00 pm »


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