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Author Topic: Retarded musicians at the club  (Read 20751 times)

duane massey

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Re: Retarded musicians at the club
« Reply #40 on: June 16, 2011, 06:05:59 pm »

I've seen good engineers start with the drums or the vocals or the strings or the "featured instrument". It depends upon many different parts of the gig, including genre and familiarrity with the venue/system. A good engineer gets the mix right but (just as important) also appropriate to the genre. One size does not fit all.

I will confess that I get a bit skeptical when the engineer at an acoustic jazz gig concentrates on the drums, and then spends 5 secs on the horns.
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Duane Massey
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g'bye, Dick Rees

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Re: Retarded musicians at the club
« Reply #41 on: June 16, 2011, 06:13:03 pm »

I've seen good engineers start with the drums or the vocals or the strings or the "featured instrument". It depends upon many different parts of the gig, including genre and familiarrity with the venue/system. A good engineer gets the mix right but (just as important) also appropriate to the genre. One size does not fit all.

I will confess that I get a bit skeptical when the engineer at an acoustic jazz gig concentrates on the drums, and then spends 5 secs on the horns.

I start with the first person on stage who'll pay attention and actually work with me.  That said, I seldom get more than line checks.......
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James Feenstra

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Re: Retarded musicians at the club
« Reply #42 on: June 16, 2011, 08:52:32 pm »

I will confess that I get a bit skeptical when the engineer at an acoustic jazz gig concentrates on the drums, and then spends 5 secs on the horns.
logic dictates that an instrument with 12 mics on it will take considerably more time than an instrument with one mic on it...

just from a 'time spent on this person' point of view...

a few years ago reverend horton heat posted a blog on myspace in regards to the same thing....why do sound guys spend so much time on the drums and so little time on guitars?

simple answer: there's a lot more mics to deal with on a drum kit than any other instrument on stage. it's not that they're the most important, there's simply more inputs there to deal with and the entire kit should sound like a single instrument as opposed to 12 different ones. That in itself can be quite a challenge sometimes.
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Jeff Bankston

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Re: Retarded musicians at the club
« Reply #43 on: June 16, 2011, 08:59:00 pm »

logic dictates that an instrument with 12 mics on it will take considerably more time than an instrument with one mic on it...

just from a 'time spent on this person' point of view...

a few years ago reverend horton heat posted a blog on myspace in regards to the same thing....why do sound guys spend so much time on the drums and so little time on guitars?

simple answer: there's a lot more mics to deal with on a drum kit than any other instrument on stage. it's not that they're the most important, there's simply more inputs there to deal with and the entire kit should sound like a single instrument as opposed to 12 different ones. That in itself can be quite a challenge sometimes.
[/quote]                                                                                         you said it buddy ! 10 mics on my drum kit and it takes time to get the levels even so all the drums are blended together in the mix. thats one of my drum kits in the foto and i play hard rock.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2011, 12:22:26 am by Jeff Harrell »
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Felix Werner

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Re: Retarded musicians at the club
« Reply #44 on: June 16, 2011, 11:05:20 pm »

I guess big Mick doesn't qualify as a soundman then...

And no studio engineer knows anything about mixing a band either than...

I've never seen a good tech start with anything except drums (assuming there ARE drums), seeing as how the rhythm section is the foundation...
[/quote]


I didn't say line check. I said a mix. If you mix everything to the drums, you aren't a soundman. period. sorry.
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Felix Werner

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Re: Retarded musicians at the club
« Reply #45 on: June 16, 2011, 11:18:45 pm »


I start with the first person on stage who'll pay attention and actually work with me.  That said, I seldom get more than line checks.......
[/quote]

Absolutely agree with you. Line checks are one thing, and a mix is another. I'ts just that after the drum line checks and whatever goes with that, they leave the drums at that level and try to mix everything to that.
Everything should be mixed to the vocalist, not the other way around.
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Re: Retarded musicians at the club
« Reply #46 on: June 16, 2011, 11:59:02 pm »

I start with the first person on stage who'll pay attention and actually work with me.  That said, I seldom get more than line checks.......


Absolutely agree with you. Line checks are one thing, and a mix is another. I'ts just that after the drum line checks and whatever goes with that, they leave the drums at that level and try to mix everything to that.
Everything should be mixed to the vocalist, not the other way around.

I never always do things the same way.....depending on the situation.
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Felix Werner

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Re: Retarded musicians at the club
« Reply #47 on: June 17, 2011, 12:06:23 am »


I never always do things the same way.....depending on the situation.
[/quote]

Agreed.
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duane massey

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Re: Retarded musicians at the club
« Reply #48 on: June 17, 2011, 12:17:42 am »


I never always do things the same way.....depending on the situation.

Agreed.
[/quote]
My point exactly. And (as any "old-school" jazz musician will tel you) a traditional jazz kit doesn't need 11-16 mics. Quite often you'll see 1 OH and a kick. I'm talking Bruebeck-style jazz, not smooth jazz.
The same mic'ing technique does not apply to every genre.
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Duane Massey
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James Feenstra

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Re: Retarded musicians at the club
« Reply #49 on: June 17, 2011, 12:58:15 pm »

Quote
I guess big Mick doesn't qualify as a soundman then...

And no studio engineer knows anything about mixing a band either than...

I've never seen a good tech start with anything except drums (assuming there ARE drums), seeing as how the rhythm section is the foundation...
[/color]

I didn't say line check. I said a mix. If you mix everything to the drums, you aren't a soundman. period. sorry.
if you mix everything to one particular instrument PERIOD...

and you said start, not mix
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Re: Retarded musicians at the club
« Reply #49 on: June 17, 2011, 12:58:15 pm »


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