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[Anthony Warren]

Hi all,

Just registered here - have read topics in the sound forum but thought I throw the net wider in here and hopefully gain some ideas and thoughts.

Fairly recently, I've got involved with the tech team at our Church.  Overall, I think we have a good setup but I think getting towards a kind of fork in the direction we take in terms of how we feed our projectors.

Our setup is as follows:
Sources:
Projection PC (outputs S-video)
Pastors PC (used for sermon powerpoints, also outputting S-Video)
Composite camera/TV/VHS Video.
All of these are fed into an Edirol V4.

We then feed composite into a DA that in turns goes of to 2 projectors, we take the second output of the Edirol and feed that into a Composite over Cat5 sender and at the other end of it feed it into a 3rd projector.

This works great, apart from when we have a need to have a PC input that can only do VGA.

So, my current thoughts are.....
Buy a scaler to scale down a VGA source to composite/S-vid and feed it into the Edirol.
Or, should we look at some sort of scaler/switch to sit after the Edirol and scale up the Edirol output to VGA/switch to PC input, and then drive the projectors with VGA signal.
(We do have VGA and composite cabling to both wing projectors)

I've attached a diagram that hopefully shows what we've got.

Any thoughts, comments or guidance would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Anthony

[Guest]

Why would you want to scan down anything? My suggestion would be to scale up everything. Especially if you already have VGA going to the projectors and you can always get a different Balun for the rear projector to turn the CATV into VGA. You want to maintain the resolution of the device with the highest resolution output. In most church situations the computer is what is used the most and you want that to look as good as possible the only way to do this is with VGA, RGBHV, or similar. Composite and S video can not maintain the resolution or color that the former can. So get a good Scaler switcher and use it to output the highest resolution your projectors can handle. Let it dumb down the signal when needed and keep everything else as high as possible.
T

[Gil Parente]

Hi Anthony,

Adding to what Thomas wrote:
I would look into a switcher/scaler, many brands to choose from, with at least two VGA inputs as well as S-Video or Composite inputs.
Example:
http://www.extron.com/product/product.aspx?id=in1508&sub type=149
http://www.analogway.com/product/OCTO-FADE-2

I'd patch both PCs straight into it and your V4 mixer into one of the S-Video input, and use this unit to switch between PCs and Camera switcher.

Your other option would be to upgrade your V4 to a switcher that gives you a few VGA inputs, but that would cost quite a bit more.

Hope it helps

Gil

[NLFX Pro]

I agree with Thomas.  Always scale all your inputs to as high as resolution as you can. Only in rare instances would you scale down.  
Running your inputs into a scaler/switcher and sending the signal over CAT5 is an option that usually works best for us. You can get CAT 5 converters to output to almost any termination.  

[Anthony Warren]

Hi guys,

Thanks ever so much for the replies. I did think that using a switcher/scaler would be the best route - just wanted to confirm with those more knowledgeable than me!

Another little thought I have though, is that at the moment we can fade/mix the inputs on the Edirol.   If we go down the route of a scaler/switcher then potentially we would lose this ability in terms of fading to/from the PC input.....unless there is a relatively inexpensive scaler/switcher that has option to fade between inputs?
Does such a device exist?

I appreciate your help in this.

Anthony

[Guest]

Most if not all of the switcher scalers that are under 1500.oo dollars do not "DISSOLVE" between inputs. They will fade through black however. Fading through black is fine in most applications. Gil made a suggestion on running you computers strait into the scaler and then either a composite or s vid out of your v4 to the scaler. This will still allow you to dissolve between cameras and other sources DVD players. However you will still have to fade through black to go to your computer. To me it is worth the fade in order to get the quality.

[Brad Weber]

As Thomas said, you are not going to find a switcher/scaler with fades or transitions other than cuts and fade through black at the lower price points, you really need a true seamless switcher with two scalers to start getting into that kind of functionality (where the transition can occur between two scaler outputs rather than on the input to a single scaler).

The difference for the video sources may be negligible when using a scaler, that all depends on how good the scaling in the projectors is.  However, I think you will like the improvement in the computer images by scaling rather than downconverting to S-Video and then rescaling back up at the projectors.

Doug and Brian must be busy but since it is occurring multiple times in this thread, just a reminder that one of the forum rules is that aliases are to be your real name.

[Ed Qualls]

Thomas Lamb wrote on Mon, 13 October 2008 17:07

Most if not all of the switcher scalers that are under 1500.oo dollars do not "DISSOLVE" between inputs. They will fade through black however. Fading through black is fine in most applications. Gil made a suggestion on running you computers strait into the scaler and then either a composite or s vid out of your v4 to the scaler. This will still allow you to dissolve between cameras and other sources DVD players. However you will still have to fade through black to go to your computer. To me it is worth the fade in order to get the quality.

Connecting a production video switcher is one of the "upgrade" paths I reccomend to churches using the under $1500 switcher scaler that we make.  We are typically working with small to medium size churches that will only have a single camera on day 1, so they are fine with the fade to black approach.  When they are ready to move up to multiple cameras, we advise them to pickup a video switcher/fader (we use a Videonics MX-4 at several churches) to upgrade their IMAG service quality, while still using our CAT5 matrix/switcher/scaler to feed the projectors and overflow rooms.  We just plug the MX-4 into one of the scaler inputs on the Video Genie.

[Joe Long]

CAT IV is a joke

[Joe Long]

I'm only joking. But, I do have some questions regarding how to push our computer/videos, ect in back to the projector...something simple, small church but we do alot of videos and what not.

So right now we have our computer running VGA out to a CAT5 booster box to the projector which also has a CAT5 box by it too.
however, we're looking to a different route due to some problems.
Anyway something that will be able to switch between, computer, dvd's, stuff like that, although at times we might run video from our computer, but i guess that could be a whole other thing in its self.
Where to start!? haha something different for quality from computer/video to the projector, hey maybe even a better projector. thanks for reading., I'm really looking for someone to communicate with outside of this to get some notes on our set up ect..

[Arnold B. Krueger]

Anthony Warren wrote on Tue, 07 October 2008 17:00

Hi all, Just registered here - have read topics in the sound forum but thought I throw the net wider in here and hopefully gain some ideas and thoughts. Fairly recently, I've got involved with the tech team at our Church.  Overall, I think we have a good setup but I think getting towards a kind of fork in the direction we take in terms of how we feed our projectors. Our setup is as follows: Sources: Projection PC (outputs S-video) Pastors PC (used for sermon powerpoints, also outputting S-Video) Composite camera/TV/VHS Video. All of these are fed into an Edirol V4.

We have evolved to a completely different place.

Pastor's PC and booth PC are both connected to system via their usual RGB DB-15 connectors.

We run our projector in RGB mode via standard HD 15 connector.

We pretty well stopped playing DVDs, and use our PC to turn all motion video into MPG files, and play those on the PC.  It was the cuing that changed our minds about how to do this.

Anything else that is TV video including cameras and our mostly unused DVD player goes through our Edirol Kross Four, and out of there into an inexpensive TV-> RGB converter.

We have an electronic switch that selects which of the 3 possible RGB sources are routed to the projector.

We have a number of inexpensive RGB splitters, two of which route video back from the RGB outputs of the two computers, back into the Kross Four.

Yes, this whole rats nest could be better replaced by one good scaler, but not without spending a ton more money!

[Joe Long]

Alright, Im not sure what I got out of how you guys run from your jector to the comp, or "station" If anybody's down to gettin my email and straight up talkin specs and what not with me that would be awesome, Our Church is lookin to upgrade "slowly" on everything we got, and my job is the multimedia stuff, so if anybody has some input/suggestions/contacts, that would be greatly appreciated.

thanks.
Jarron

[Brad Weber]

Jarron,

I'm not quite sure what you are looking for.  This forum seems to thrive on open discussion and there are probably quite a few other churches in similar situations that could benefit from or add to any discussion.  This is probably why many people participate.  For the group to help you could start by telling us a bit more information about what you currently have and how you use it as well as more details on what you want to do, including any specific goals such as budget.

If you are looking for someone to consult or design a system just for you outside of the forum then that is quite different and should probably be clarified.
 

[Joe Long]

Currently we have our computer that's connected VGA out to a Cat5 box that we run cat 5 cable to the jector that has cat 5 box number two that connects the VGA to jector, so basically running CAT 5...

run sound out of comp to the board..not that that matters, cause im more focused on getting more quality and picture...

so im thinking running VGA all out..and just getting a booster maybe? Any other suggestions?

[Brad Weber]

By details I mean such as the CAT5 interface and projector models you currently have and the length of the cable run from the computer to the projector.  If you want to discuss projectors then information such as the screen size, potential projector location relative to the screen, light levels on the screen and so forth.  All of these factors can significantly affect any recommendations.

Then there are the subjective and functional issues.  For example, why are you thinking of replacing the current cabling to the projector?  What is wrong with the current setup or what are you trying to improve?  If the goal is to improve "quality", then what does that mean to you?  Some idea of the size of the facility and membership, any budget goals and any other general information might also help us to understand your situation.  Pictures of the space can be immensely useful.

[Joe Long]

Yea, I try to be detailed kinda.  Is what im shooting for is rather as much input as i can get for the best quality anyone would think...

Cause right now we're pretty basic on our stuff and my job is to slowly start to build that up...
I just want to see my options,

- what kind of cord can i run for video from projector to "station" at about 100ft.-  

sorry if im confusing, Im not that great at laying it out...

this being a "starter" question
1 what kind of cord can i run for video from projector to "station" at about 100ft.?
its not that big of deal on what kind of projector we have now cause if I can sell them a pitch we can get another jector soon... but right now it just has vga, coax, rca, basic inputs..

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