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Author Topic: New Sound System  (Read 32089 times)

Mike Galica

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Re: New Sound System
« Reply #90 on: August 22, 2008, 03:58:51 pm »

I think the only reason to have the all the same brand of mics on stage is if that brand gave them to you.
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Mike Galica

Jeff Ekstrand

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Re: New Sound System
« Reply #91 on: August 22, 2008, 04:28:51 pm »

Brands don't make microphones with the idea that if you use all of their brand on each source you'll gain some form of audible advantage in the world of physics. They'd love to have a stage that's full of Audio Technica, Shure, AKG, Audix, etc. But even the bands that are sponsored or endorsed by a specific company don't necessarily use only that brand of mic... depending on their specific contract. Usually all the mics you see will be from that brand, but backstage micing amps or the like they'll use whatever the engineer thinks best.

I would suggest demoing, renting, etc., as many mics for a particular application as you possibly can. Pick the one you like best for each application. You may end-up with an Audix kick mic, Shure vocals, Sennheisers for brass and guitars, etc. It may not look as awesome not having all the same brand, but we're not in the aesthetics business here, we're in the "How does it sound?" business. Maybe the lighting guys can make the audio setup look better. Smile
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Jeff Ekstrand

Technical Director, North Shore Campus
Willow Creek Community Church
Northfield, IL

David Sumrall

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Re: New Sound System
« Reply #92 on: August 22, 2008, 06:02:31 pm »

Greetings from the land of Tropical Storm Fay.

Hopefully this thing will get out of here before the olympic coverage is over!Surprised)
........

You most definitely don't have to make all your mics the same brand all over your stage.

But there are some advantages to making some things standardized....

Vocal mics- It can be very helpful to make all your hand held vocal mics to have the same element. This makes things a lot easier for eq for FOH and monitors.

Choir mics- again having them be the same mic is very helpful. For example if you have 4 choir mics you would want 4 414's or 4 81's or 4 4041's etc.

Mixed use mics- When you don't have a lot of mics to choose from in your inventory, then having mics that can work in a lot of situations can be very useful. While having just one of this and one of that might not work as well until you get some more inventory going.

Wireless mics- for rf purposes is best to use systems from the same brand vs mixing things up. It is much easier to plan and coordinate rf using the same brand and you can have more channels overall.  Wireless is also a good place to plan for flexibility, for example if you have a wireless pack you could use that for a headset, lav, acoustic guitar, trumpet, violin etc etc.

Hardwired packs- some brands have hardwired packs that have the same pin config as the wireless body pack. We use hardwired packs for clip on condensors and lavs for some instruments and since our wireless is the same it is very easy to be flexible with these mics.  

Budget- condensers are going to cost more. So depending on how much you have and how many mics you need, you might be able to get more inventory without getting as many condensers. Then you could upgrade to condensers later on. You just have to prioritize it for yourself.

Riders-now this might not apply to you as much and might  definitely apply more to larger spaces. Usually artist riders will specify this or that and may list a suitable replacement.
They have this on the riders so that they can get as much consistency as possible in different locations.

Opinions- On this forum you might get a lot of them especially on brand. The main thing is that you get the right mic for the right purpose and that it works well.

Repairs- Some times repair issues might weigh decisions on mic purchases. Some mics can be repaired cheaply some not so cheap.
Condensers are more fragile and will break faster and usually cost more to fix.  

Examples-

Here in our smaller rooms we use 57's on snare, toms, guitar amps, perc etc. They work well, sound great, hold up, and are inexpensive in these applications. These rooms are very multipurpose with operators and musicians at all kinds of ages and experience levels.

Smaller room condensers are all sm81's. They work great and are sturdy. In the small rooms that dont have condensers we might use a 57 as a perc mic or even a choir mic.

For kick we use Beta 52's in all our rooms. I like it better then the AKG D112 which have some that might use for a bass cab etc.

In our main worship center we have a decent inventory that is more of a smorgasbord. We have Akg 414's on the piano, EV re20's on tympani, all choir mics are Neuman, drum kit is still a 52 and 57's with neuman overheads, french horns are sennheiser 421's, flutes are sm81's, strings are shure lav's clipped on to the bridge, trumpets are sennheiser's that used to be on the drum set etc etc.

I'd love to have some dpa's on the strings but i don't think it make too much financial since right now.

My point is not to say hey look at how many mics we have but just to give you some examples.

I wish I could remember the name of one of the books I have at the office. It is specifically  about microphones choice and placement. I'll try and dig it up next week.

Dito on the comments from Jeff or others on renting or borrowing some mics to try. But I would probably move the lovely plant to hear what they sound like better:O)

Good luck!

Time to go walk the dog again, maybe we are in between some rain clouds and this time will be dry!

David

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David Sumrall
Audio Engineer
Gateway Church
Soutlake Texas
GatewayPeople.com

Shad Hall

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Re: New Sound System
« Reply #93 on: August 22, 2008, 07:23:42 pm »

David Sumrall wrote on Fri, 22 August 2008 18:02



Wireless mics- for rf purposes is best to use systems from the same brand vs mixing things up. It is much easier to plan and coordinate rf using the same brand and you can have more channels overall.  Wireless is also a good place to plan for flexibility, for example if you have a wireless pack you could use that for a headset, lav, acoustic guitar, trumpet, violin etc etc.

David



Thanks for the detailed reply.

Currently we are using two wireless packs by AudioTechnica; one for the guitar and one that is used either for the lav or the head-word ear mic depending on which is needed. One is the 2000 Series and the other unit is the 3000 Series.

Later down the road we will be adding more wireless devices. For future wireless devices, Sennheiser was suggested to me because of their ability to switch channels so quickly, which I understand to be good, but we never have problems with other radio or CB signals and we're only one mile from I-80. The Sennheisers are several hundred dollars more than the units we have which suit us fine; should we still consider the brand switch at the time of arriving to that bridge? I liked your comment about not being so name-dependant, but are Sennheiser wireless devices really that much better? Worth the extra $$$?

Thanks,
Shad
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Shad Hall
Live Sound Tech
Roseville Community Church - Mackie 808-S
Elim Trinity Church - A&H GL2800
Sacramento, CA

"I'm an idealist. Get used to me wanting something better."

Shad Hall

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Re: New Sound System
« Reply #94 on: August 22, 2008, 07:36:58 pm »

When the day arrives to purchase all of this equipment, I have several contacts that I will inquire to, which is great, but have a couple of questions.

I have been suggested a couple of web sites that offer fantastic prices that I'm not sure can even be beaten if the items were given to me. Smile Should all products be bought from the same place or is it okay to piece-meal it to save (a reasonable amount of) money if that were to be the case? Also, not all items might be available from one of my contacts and therefore, alternate suggestions would be made, which is fine, but now we're talking about new items again after the list is finalized.  If I know the suggested item to be good from research done on it, then fine, but if not, then I would like to research the new item before purchasing since I'm buying all of this at once.

Can you ease my probably unnecessary thought on this matter?  What's the most efficient approach to this purchasing for all parties concerned?

Very Happy
Shad
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Shad Hall
Live Sound Tech
Roseville Community Church - Mackie 808-S
Elim Trinity Church - A&H GL2800
Sacramento, CA

"I'm an idealist. Get used to me wanting something better."

Doug Bishop

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Re: New Sound System
« Reply #95 on: August 23, 2008, 09:32:26 am »

I have a source that I go to for pricing AFTER I have researched all of my items.  I jump on some "online" web sites for pricing and availability of my items.  I also go to the manufacturers' web sites for more research.  Once I'v got my list down I contact my "source" and normally get much better pricing than what is shown on the online sites.  Most manufacturers has a minimum price that distributors are allowed to advertize their products for.  On rare occasions I will find a better deal elsewhere and for quick one item less expensive stuff I usually just hit the online order site of preference/availability.

If it works to divide your purchases fine...sometimes the source with the un-advertized pricing will accomodate you better if the order is larger in which case I would normally take the package deal even if one or two items could be gotten a little cheaper elsewhere.  Often the online sites that push the "free shipping" are high enough to cover the shipping in the cost.

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Michael Robertson

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Re: New Sound System
« Reply #96 on: August 23, 2008, 08:57:01 pm »

Not that I haven't bought anything online, but I am choosy. I'll buy some things online, but not others. Dealing locally if available has its advantages. The place we buy from sells some big boy toys, and does not even have a retail space, but they have gobs of gear. I buy there because if I have an amp or something go down on Sunday morning, I can call an owner and have a loaner on the way in a very short time. We also rent from them when we have needs that we don't have the means for and they really take care of us.
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Don't think twice. You didn't get it the first time, you won't get it the second time either.

Shad Hall

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Re: New Sound System
« Reply #97 on: August 28, 2008, 10:08:41 pm »

Well, we're running into some electrical issues as the building is rather old. I'm hoping to be able to meet with an electrician this coming week and discuss our outlets (or lack thereof), available amp loads, et cetera.  Once I that meeting takes place, then I will post again and we can go from there.

Thanks,
Shad
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Shad Hall
Live Sound Tech
Roseville Community Church - Mackie 808-S
Elim Trinity Church - A&H GL2800
Sacramento, CA

"I'm an idealist. Get used to me wanting something better."

Shad Hall

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Re: New Sound System
« Reply #98 on: August 28, 2008, 10:12:32 pm »

Hi,

I talked with an electrician this week and hope to meet with him this coming week to discuss our situation and see what needs to be done prior to anything else. The church is an old building and there are limited outlets and electrical boxes may need to be beefed up. Will know next week and post an update then.

Thanks,
Shad
Very Happy
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Shad Hall
Live Sound Tech
Roseville Community Church - Mackie 808-S
Elim Trinity Church - A&H GL2800
Sacramento, CA

"I'm an idealist. Get used to me wanting something better."

Andy Peters

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Re: New Sound System
« Reply #99 on: September 02, 2008, 07:40:59 pm »

Mike Galica wrote on Fri, 22 August 2008 12:58

I think the only reason to have the all the same brand of mics on stage is if that brand gave them to you.


Yep.

-a
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: New Sound System
« Reply #99 on: September 02, 2008, 07:40:59 pm »


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