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Author Topic: New Sound System  (Read 33398 times)

Kent Thompson

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Re: New Sound System
« Reply #60 on: August 14, 2008, 01:07:28 pm »

Wow analog vs digital well wont touch that but, to answer will the analog work. Well it may work but, you may limit yourself if you have purchased a smaller mixer. Channel count needs can jump dramatically when you start adding people to your praise team. You have to consider that at the start if you want an analog board to handle it. In other words buy a mixer with more channels than you need knowing that you may not use them now but later on you may. This has a domino effect because, you will need a snake that will also handle that channel count. If you don't plan on this now then when it happens. You will have to buy a new mixer and a new snake. If the larger worship team is very long term it may not be an issue.

A lot of people may not have this luxury(which I totally understand) but my preference is to see at least a half dozen unused channels on the board for things like guest performers and channel failures(we happen to use an older Mackie mixer that started giving us problems recently)  etc. If you don't have the extra channels then you will be doing a lot of cable runs during the service to set up for guest performers and the such.
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Shad Hall

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Re: New Sound System
« Reply #61 on: August 14, 2008, 01:36:00 pm »

Kent Thompson wrote on Thu, 14 August 2008 13:07

Wow analog vs digital well wont touch that but, to answer will the analog work. Well it may work but, you may limit yourself if you have purchased a smaller mixer. Channel count needs can jump dramatically when you start adding people to your praise team. You have to consider that at the start if you want an analog board to handle it. In other words buy a mixer with more channels than you need knowing that you may not use them now but later on you may. This has a domino effect because, you will need a snake that will also handle that channel count. If you don't plan on this now then when it happens. You will have to buy a new mixer and a new snake. If the larger worship team is very long term it may not be an issue.

A lot of people may not have this luxury(which I totally understand) but my preference is to see at least a half dozen unused channels on the board for things like guest performers and channel failures(we happen to use an older Mackie mixer that started giving us problems recently)  etc. If you don't have the extra channels then you will be doing a lot of cable runs during the service to set up for guest performers and the such.

You're right and I mentioned a 28ch mixer board that I've been looking at and projected our needed channels in an earlier post taking all of that into consideration, so I think we should be fine.

Shad Hall

To make things simple, let's start over and go about this in a more efficient manner.

Currently, we have 3 musicians (aside from sound man); worship leader who plays guitar, two backup singers. However, things are changing and a new group is on their way, but this is what you have to take in faith, because we are believing and praying fervently for this to come to fruition. So since we don't have definite musical positions to fill/consider for this thread, this is what I'm projecting and also leaving room for growth in the future of course.

Lead vocal (Audio-Technica - Omnidirectional Condenser Headworn Microphone Currently using this or similar model; not sure of exact model humber.)
3 x backup singers
2 x guitars (1 is wireless pack by Audio-Technica)
1 x bass guitar
1 x electric piano (stereo)
1 x mic'd konga set (4 mics?)*

* This past Friday, I was down at the church and for the fun of it, I took 4 vocal mics and mic'd the konga set (2 x bongos; 2 x kongas) and set the levels and rocked out. It sounds much better mic'd than simply acoustic and not just because of volume reasons.

So in that list, I count 10-12 channels. If/once a trap set is added, another 8-10 channels will be absorbed.

Which is a total of 22 channels.

Hope my reply doesn't sound hostile.

Peace,
Shad
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Shad Hall
Live Sound Tech
Roseville Community Church - Mackie 808-S
Elim Trinity Church - A&H GL2800
Sacramento, CA

"I'm an idealist. Get used to me wanting something better."

Shad Hall

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Re: New Sound System
« Reply #62 on: August 14, 2008, 01:39:12 pm »

Kent Thompson wrote on Tue, 05 August 2008 17:37

Quote:

The snake goes through the floor, under the building and back up through the floor at the sound booth. Luckily Northern California is dry.

Are there no rats in California?

We have a half dozen or so feral cats in the neighborhood. Very Happy
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Shad Hall
Live Sound Tech
Roseville Community Church - Mackie 808-S
Elim Trinity Church - A&H GL2800
Sacramento, CA

"I'm an idealist. Get used to me wanting something better."

Doug Bishop

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Re: New Sound System
« Reply #63 on: August 14, 2008, 03:02:49 pm »

Perhaps you could call them "spit screens" or "lipstick screens" and they would make more sense.

BTW you should be able to pick up SM57 and SM58 mics online for $99.99 with free shipping just about anywhere....less if you find a source that doesn't advertise their price online.  This is the lowest that Shure will allow vendors to advertise them for but you can probably do better.

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Doug Bishop

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Re: New Sound System
« Reply #64 on: August 14, 2008, 03:18:48 pm »

Are you referring to the Beta57A and Beta58A mics?  Shure doesn't show an SM58A or SM57A on their site.

The beta's are a supercardoid mics and probably more than you really need considering the pics you have posted of your facility.  I would stick with the tried and true work horses onf the industry...SM58 for vocals and SM57 for instruments or amp cabinets that need to be mic'd.

There is a reason that these two have been around for so long and are still preferred by many professionals.

BTW...in case there is any thought of buying the switched models....don't!  You never want to give your people on stage the ability to cut themselves off....and turn the congregation's heads towards you.  Smile



Best to you
The Other Doug
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Doug Bishop

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Re: New Sound System
« Reply #65 on: August 14, 2008, 03:33:13 pm »

While you're at it....pick up a large spool of mic cable and some quality solder type switchcraft XLR connectors and build your own mic cables.

Be sure to test them with an ohm meter both for a good connection and to be sure that you don't have a short.

I'm having so much fun making cables at our church I just hunt for places that need an upgrade.  Premade cables are never the right length and often come with non-soldered spade terminations inside the connector.

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Doug Bishop

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Re: New Sound System
« Reply #66 on: August 14, 2008, 03:38:33 pm »

Why then does Shure's web site not show either an SM57A or SM58A?

http://www.shure.com/ProAudio/Products/WiredMicrophones/us_p ro_sm_overview_content

unless they were and are no more which means that Shad will have a difficult time finding them.

Hey I've been wrong before....
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Doug Bishop

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Re: New Sound System
« Reply #67 on: August 14, 2008, 03:45:16 pm »

Syncopated?  Tsk tsk!  I recall Larry Norman once commenting in one of his long drawn out between numbers talks (that I so much miss) something like... "What's that word that that guys who says rock and roll is of the devil uses?  Yeah...syncopation....so we're going to syncopate it so you'll all know which side of the pearly gates you're on."

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Doug Bishop

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Re: New Sound System
« Reply #68 on: August 14, 2008, 03:52:29 pm »

Oh contrare'.  The SM57 grilles are removable.  We had one left out in our gym a couple of years ago and someone found a way...of course there was no way to put it back on since removing it apparently included a bit of Roger Daltry mic swinging and also hitting the floor with a good deal of force.

I eventually purchased a replacement cartridge and fixed it up good as new.  Funny thing is that it came with 2 stickers with it.  One was for an SM56 which apparently is no loger sold.


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Shad Hall

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Re: New Sound System
« Reply #69 on: August 14, 2008, 03:56:58 pm »

Doug Bishop wrote on Thu, 14 August 2008 15:18

Are you referring to the Beta57A and Beta58A mics?  Shure doesn't show an SM58A or SM57A on their site.

The beta's are a supercardoid mics and probably more than you really need considering the pics you have posted of your facility.  I would stick with the tried and true work horses onf the industry...SM58 for vocals and SM57 for instruments or amp cabinets that need to be mic'd.

There is a reason that these two have been around for so long and are still preferred by many professionals.

BTW...in case there is any thought of buying the switched models....don't!  You never want to give your people on stage the ability to cut themselves off....and turn the congregation's heads towards you.  Smile



Best to you
The Other Doug


Yes, I was referring to the "beta" mics, but at the time of the first post when I mentioned it, I hadn't learned that yet, but was corrected a few posts later. Long threads such as this one can get a bit crazy. Razz

After all of the research I've been doing (with the help of everyone's input), I agree with you that I believe the tried & true tested SM57 and SM58's is what will suit us best for this venue.

And I totally agree with you about the mic "switch"! Limit control as much as possible, not to be totalitarian, but to have the best presentation in this case. I have had plenty of congregational members "look back" at me when it wasn't even my fault. Very Happy Ah, the joys of working with humans. I miss Mars. Very Happy

Shad
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Shad Hall
Live Sound Tech
Roseville Community Church - Mackie 808-S
Elim Trinity Church - A&H GL2800
Sacramento, CA

"I'm an idealist. Get used to me wanting something better."

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: New Sound System
« Reply #69 on: August 14, 2008, 03:56:58 pm »


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