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Author Topic: Sound system ideas needed...  (Read 6434 times)

Adam Sabo

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Re: Sound system ideas needed...
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2008, 08:50:14 AM »

Stephen,
Thanks so much for such an informative and filled post, I will go about checking out all those specific components immediately! I continue to check this post for feedback, as I get closer to buy I will post the list for a day or two for any more feedback from those who have been reading (to see if anyone would make any other suggestions...) Thanks Again!
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Cliff Jeffrey

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Re: Sound system ideas needed...
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2008, 10:53:40 AM »

Do you have power outlets where your powered srm450's would go? Also using powered speakers on stage calls for power and quite often extension chords. Which can sure clutter up a small stage.
Stephen's suggestions are good, really good I think.

We in my church of 70 are going through this now. I lean towards un-powered speakers, separate amps, un-powered mixer. I like the Yamaha line of products personally in this budget range. Here is why I say go un-powered. (Although the powered speakers option is not a bad one) Because it allows more flexibility and easier to upgrade later. Also you could get cheaper equipment, Such as Behringer, some people like it and some do not, yours is not a portable system and as such will have less abuse. The you could swap out pieces as you can afford. And 1 piece of an un-powered system is cheaper then replacing powered speakers, or a powered mixer.

Not saying one is better, just a different way of looking at things, all depends what works for your church.

Also one of the most important things is good operators! A untrained guy or gal can make the best system sound horrible or a cheaper but Ok system sound decent. I have no suggestions as we are just looking at this now. Wanting to get a book, or preferably video's to train our guys.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Sound system ideas needed...
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2008, 08:52:54 PM »

All of your unbalanced connections need transformers in order the signal down the lines without noise and HF loss.
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Can I have some more talent in the monitors--PLEASE?

Ivan Beaver
dB Audio & Video Inc.

Adam Sabo

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Re: Sound system ideas needed...
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2008, 10:49:04 PM »

Cliff, I tend to think the same with regard to passive speakers and an amp... I like that idea a little better. Particularly since we don't have any outlet plugs under where the speakers would be. Are the Mackie SRM450's a powered version of the C300z?? If that were the case I would lean towards the C300z. But it is apparent a 15" speaker would be overkill... right?!
I am a bit concerned about the sound coverage. Both the above mentioned speakers have a 90 degree dispersion, so I like that because I am concerned the first two rows will be bipassed by the time the sound hits the congregation... I'm not sure.


Ivan, I suppose to solve the transformer problem I could do it with DI boxes, or is there something else? Something I wasn't aware of.
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Tim S Kemp

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Re: Sound system ideas needed...
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2008, 02:41:29 AM »

At risk of echoing what others have already said - your budget is a touch small.

However let me try and throw some recommendations your way, unfortunately as I'm in the UK the pricing may be different for you.

Spend half your budget on self-powered speakers, so something from the DB Technologies Opera self powered series, the 12 inch ones. They do a kit with a sub as well that will fit into your price range and sounds very good. We use them for stage monitors - make sure you spend as much as you dare.

Buy one of the Yamaha MG series mixers, plan to replace it when it breaks (probably in 2-3 yrs) with something a lot nicer, but at least it will be low noise and sound OK.

Microphones. SM58s are overpriced for your application - Sennheiser's 835 is a very good all rounder for less than half the price. You should be able to get a wireless one into your budget and have the rest wired.

DIs,Behringer's Ultra DI100. I've got a couple, and they seem to  be as good as anything else under

Kent Thompson

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Re: Sound system ideas needed...
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2008, 11:50:40 AM »

Wow never thought I would hear overpriced and sm58 in the same sentence!

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/E835/
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SM58/

They are the exact same price.

One or the other might be better on a particular type of voice which is how I would make a decision on which microphone to buy. Buying strictly by price can cause long term grief.


I have a few of those Berhinger DI's they work...
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Jeff Ekstrand

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Re: Sound system ideas needed...
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2008, 12:04:54 PM »

Quote:

Microphones. SM58s are overpriced for your application - Sennheiser's 835 is a very good all rounder for less than half the price. You should be able to get a wireless one into your budget and have the rest wired.

DIs,Behringer's Ultra DI100. I've got a couple, and they seem to be as good as anything else under
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Jeff Ekstrand

Technical Director, North Shore Campus
Willow Creek Community Church
Northfield, IL

Cliff Jeffrey

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Re: Sound system ideas needed...
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2008, 12:20:26 PM »

Adam Sabo wrote on Wed, 27 February 2008 22:49

Cliff, I tend to think the same with regard to passive speakers and an amp... I like that idea a little better. Particularly since we don't have any outlet plugs under where the speakers would be. Are the Mackie SRM450's a powered version of the C300z?? If that were the case I would lean towards the C300z. But it is apparent a 15" speaker would be overkill... right?!
I am a bit concerned about the sound coverage. Both the above mentioned speakers have a 90 degree dispersion, so I like that because I am concerned the first two rows will be bipassed by the time the sound hits the congregation... I'm not sure.


Ivan, I suppose to solve the transformer problem I could do it with DI boxes, or is there something else? Something I wasn't aware of.



Not sure if the SRM 450 is just a powered version of the C300z or not. Look at the specs and you could tell. Without having power outlets near the speakers sperate amps may be a good idea.

As far as a 15" speaker being overkill. Maybe not as you have 45' to throw the sound and if you are running bass guitar through the system? then you will want the low range a 15" speaker could offer.
Maybe a couple of 12" speakers and a sub would be good but usually more money then 2-15".

Whatever you do I think you want to make sure you mount them solidly.

I will also throw out a suggestion that many on the forum may not like. The Behringer mics are $60 for a 3 pack so $20 each. Many say they find them similar to a SM58. They are so cheap that they could get you started then if they do die you can replace. Sometimes have have to do the best with what you can.
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Kent Thompson

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Re: Sound system ideas needed...
« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2008, 12:41:19 PM »

 I missed that little UK detail.Razz I understand where he was coming from now.
Anyways I don't think microphones were in his list of what he was asking so I guess it's a moot point.
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Stephen Geiger

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Re: Sound system ideas needed...
« Reply #19 on: February 29, 2008, 12:15:01 AM »

Some additional thoughts based on what other have said:

SM58 vs Sen835 -- in the US the pricing seems to be pretty similar. As to why get an SM58?
1.) Sounds good/decent on most voices
2.) They are familiar -- people (both musicians and sound operators are familiar with them). Most singers will have no issue with them (though they may have preferences for other mics). I have yet to hear a vocalist go, oh you are using 58s? (I have seen a few switch out mics for their own choice).
3.) Durable, the mesh screens dent easily, but the mics tend to last. They have long term value. They will probably still be useful in ten years.

DI Box -- The Whirlwind IMP2 is a great suggestion -- small, very durable, not too expensive, works well. The one I suggested can be nifty in stereo situations (CD L + R, Keys, etc.), but I think the Whirlwind is maybe a better suggestion. I would definitely recommend this over the Behringer unit (though to be fair I have never used the Behr unit).

Mackie SRM450 vs. C300z -- for an extra $120 you get amplification included and BI-AMPED speakers and some level of active processing. BI-AMPED speakers have two separate amps tailored to the different frequency sections and I think its a fair statement that almost all "better" speaker systems follow this design trend.

Powered vs. Passive -- in your situation. Certainly the question of electrical power is a legitimate one. I think if you can resolve the power issue you will get better sound for your dollar with an active system -- (that's my biased opinion anyway Smile).

For reference Zzounds has the powered mixer Adam references and Yamaha club speakers with stands and cables thrown in for around $1600. Setup properly that system should work pretty well. The mixer looks like a nice unit -- though in your budget range you might be better off throwing money at better speakers than some of its bells and whistles (if your speakers have a pretty flat reponse to begin with a seven band eq probably has little use.)

Why SRM450s?
1.) personal experience -- they worked well and the people I've used them with seem happy
2.) readily available
3.) fit well into a bigger system -- add subs, use as monitors etc. use as fills
4.) I seem them used professionally -- if my memory serves right -- fill speakers at Billy Graham event, stage monitors for Licoln Brewster?, stage monitors/fill speakers for Shane and Shane, fill speakers for street event in NYC, blaring sound for outdoor radio station broadcast at a large event, etc. -- I just don't see the Yamaha clubs used at this level.
5.) (In a small portable system it is nice not to have to mess with speaker cable. For an install this is not as pertinent.)

DB Powered Speakers -- they are probably great units too, just not as readily available in the US -- and I would guess not quite as price competitive in the US.  
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Re: Sound system ideas needed...
« Reply #19 on: February 29, 2008, 12:15:01 AM »


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