ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: 1/4" returns on snake used for instruments  (Read 1404 times)

Corbett Reeves

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 27
1/4" returns on snake used for instruments
« on: February 01, 2008, 06:32:11 pm »

This may be a really obvious answer, so please go easy on my feelings here guys! Smile

Is there a reason NOT to use the 1/4" returns on a 100' 24x4 rapco snake as instrument channels?  Is it a question of signal loss?
Logged
Lighten up, dang it!

Ivan Beaver

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 963
Re: 1/4" returns on snake used for instruments
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2008, 10:03:16 pm »

It depends on how they are used.  If used in a balanced configuration, then they will be fine, but if used unbalanced, all sorts of issues can crop up, including noise, high freq loss, hum etc.

In some cases even unbalanced may kinda-sorta work, depending on particular drive levels, output impedances etc.

But you will not actually do any damage to anything, the sound quality may just be poor, so give it a try.
Logged
Can I have some more talent in the monitors--PLEASE?

Ivan Beaver
dB Audio & Video Inc.

Jerrybosun

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 77
Re: 1/4" returns on snake used for instruments
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2008, 10:06:20 pm »

The wires are the same quality as the mike lines. Just a different connector.
Logged

Bob Taylor

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 23
Re: 1/4" returns on snake used for instruments
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2008, 10:22:11 am »

The snakes capacitance would roll of the high frequency's of a high impedance instrument. The longer the snake, the higher the inter-electrode capacitance of the cable, and the higher the impedance of the source, the worse the rolloff.

Unbalanced lines, especially high impedance, are antennas for dimmer noise and RF junk. Long lines need to be balanced to keep them clear of noise.

If you can drive the snake from a low impedance source like a preamp, this will reduce the noise and high frequency roll off, but a direct box will do all this for you for less trouble. I like the Radial direct boxes and use them religiously for taking directs to a Mic inputs. Pricey, but some of the best made.

Are you doing this because you don't have enough Mic lines? The 1/4 sends are the same type of wire as the Mic's. Convert them to XLR's and use them.
Logged

Corbett Reeves

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 27
Re: 1/4" returns on snake used for instruments
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2008, 08:38:31 pm »

We're moving into a location and it has a 24x4 snake with 1/4" returns installed.  It also has speaker wire runs already in place for both mains and monitors, so I have no need for the 4 returns, unless we use them as sends.

We're only installing a 24 channel console, so in all probability we'd not need the 4 extra channels at all, but it doesn't hurt to know for sure.  I'm mostly just trying to learn.

I appreciate all the replies!  Ya'll sharing what you know helps so many of us... more than you'll ever know!
Logged
Lighten up, dang it!

Arnold B. Krueger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 850
    • http://www.pcavtech.com
Re: 1/4" returns on snake used for instruments
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2008, 01:42:27 pm »

Jerrybosun wrote on Sat, 02 February 2008 03:06

The wires are the same quality as the mike lines. Just a different connector.


Every snake I've taken apart is wired this way. One bonus is that if you have a snake with unbalanced returns, and you want balanced returns, just change the connectors.
Logged

Brad Weber

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1484
Re: 1/4" returns on snake used for instruments
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2008, 03:29:24 pm »

This comes from some time in theatre and broadcast where tie lines are common, but a straight wire from a termination on one end to a termination on the other is a tie line, it is simply a cabling path and doesn't really care what is on it or which way the signal is going.  Of course, you want to follow the same practice for matching the signals and connections involved to the cable and connector types that you would otherwise, but I really wish some systems would get away a bit from the "send" and "return" terminology unless the lines are indeed functionally dedicated for that single purpose.  After all, it's not like the signal can only flow towards FOH on a send line and only towards the stage on a return line!
Logged
Brad Weber
muse Audio Video
www.museav.com

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: 1/4" returns on snake used for instruments
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2008, 03:29:24 pm »


Pages: [1]   Go Up
 



Page created in 0.062 seconds with 21 queries.