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Author Topic: Acoustic Treatment  (Read 3765 times)

Don Lanier

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Re: Acoustic Treatment
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2007, 07:54:53 pm »

Ive recently been involved in a large church project needing the same acoustical treatments and I understand that its difficult for the end user or church lay person to understand what they are trying to convey to you. After a initial visit where we took laser measurements, performed acoustic testing across the frequency band, attended a service and tested, and consulted with the Architect, we decided on a suggested treatment to reduce the RTA time of the room down from 7 seconds to 2.5, Now explaining why a sound system needs to be done in a certain fashion is difficult to these folks, explaining and then selling the Acoustical treatment is Way more difficult. The terms aren't familiar and without a good idea of Physics and Math its going to be extremely hard making the Church Board understand why there spending 10,000 dollars or more to fix the issues left by poor room design of the 2.5 million dollar church.

There are many manufacturer's of these products and all of them do a good job, there are differences of opinion on what types of treatments, Wall, Cieling, Baffles, Clouds, Wood, Cloth, Fiberglass, Cotton, 1" OR 2" etc, WHATS BEST...After evaluating most of the major brands on the market we looked at several local products as well as well as the DIY versions. Cork Board, Homosote, and Carpet, By doing some research you can find a chart that lists the NRC Rating of most available materials in varying thicknesses and see what works best.

Finally what it comes down to is installing enough materials to bring the RTA Down to an shorter time and this will increase intelligibility and be a more desirable environment for your Church. Diffusion, Diffraction, Absorption, Traps are all types of terms used to describe the end result and how this will be achieved. There are always several vendors doing these installations and I suggest you simply get another bid,
But at some point you must trust the expert or go about attempting to correct the problem with DIY projects that can be costly and not achieve the correct response. Fire retardant ratings are a must for any material's used in a public space and these materials should meet certain building codes and safety criteria.

Good Luck

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Don Lanier
Pearl Productions
http://www.pearlproaudio.com

Bruce Burke

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Re: Acoustic Treatment
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2007, 11:55:55 am »

Brad Weber wrote on Fri, 16 November 2007 09:16

The correct environment is what the church wants it to be.  With few exceptions, the physical space and the church's goals and vision differ for each church.  Trying to impose a single standard or assuming that every church is the same ignores the reality that each church and even every space are unique.  



How many churches have the technical savy to know what they need? If they did, would they be looking for help?

To say each church is unique may be true, but the psychoacoustic requirements are unchanging.

Indeed, someone needs to sit down with them and explain the things they don't understand and what the options are and what the benifits and consequences are of each possibility.

Don Lanier has it right.
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Brad Weber

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Re: Acoustic Treatment
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2007, 02:13:16 pm »

Bruce Burke wrote on Mon, 26 November 2007 11:55

How many churches have the technical savy to know what they need? If they did, would they be looking for help?

I believe that the churches do know what they want, at least in terms of their own ministry and vision.  The job of the acoustical consultant, or of any technical or design consultant, is to develop solutions to support those goals, whatever they are.

Quote:

To say each church is unique may be true, but the psychoacoustic requirements are unchanging.

?????  Maybe I'm just misunderstanding what is being said.  Are you saying that an Orthodox synagogue, a Roman Catholic cathedral, a traditional Protestant church and a contemporary Christian church (that sounds like the start of a joke...) all require, or even desire, the same acoustical conditions and environment?  That the same criteria and goals can be applied to all forms of worship and any space?  If so, then I would have to strongly disagree.

Quote:

Indeed, someone needs to sit down with them and explain the things they don't understand and what the options are and what the benifits and consequences are of each possibility.

Agreed, but I feel that a critical part of that effort is listening to the goals and needs expressed by the church and supporting those in what is presented rather than presenting a solution based on assumed goals and then trying to direct the application to fit that solution.  Unless you are designing to a standard set by the church or governing authorities, the design process should be a process of exploration and adaptation.  Any design or analysis should first assess the project's needs and expectations and then use that as the basis for developing solutions.  Admittedly, this entails being sufficiently skilled and knowledgeable to develop varying solutions and address differing goals, but it really seems to be the only way to properly serve each project.

Added: This is becoming much more a philosophical discussion and unless others see any benefit to it, perhaps we should move offf line with any further discusssion.
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Brad Weber
muse Audio Video
www.museav.com

David Sumrall

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Re: Acoustic Treatment
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2007, 10:59:13 pm »

Hey Mike,

Did your pro give you specifics on which exact pieces to get, where to install etc??

Or was it not as specific and just a general put something on the wall kind of advice??

Did he do audio measurements to help with those specifics??

I think everyone here wants to help, but a little bit more clarity would be helpful before real opinions can be made and advise given.

As to the build it your self concept... remember what you build may or may not give you the same results as the specified pro stuff. I would want to do it right and only once if possible.

I would not mind saving money by purchasing real product and installing it ourselves.

If cost is an issue then you could work on installing it in phases to spread cost around a bit. Maybe put some in at the end of this year and the rest in at the top of 2008.

One trick I will use if given no other option for diffusion is to put some tall fake plants along the reflective wall. I have to do this in one of our rooms that has a lot of glass on the back wall sometimes. It does not fix everything but it does help.

Good luck!

David Sumrall
Technical Director/A1
First Baptist Orlando
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David Sumrall
Audio Engineer
Gateway Church
Soutlake Texas
GatewayPeople.com

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Acoustic Treatment
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2007, 10:59:13 pm »


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