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Author Topic: 40 channel mixing console  (Read 6842 times)

Arnold B. Krueger

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Re: 40 channel mixing console
« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2007, 05:37:12 AM »

Gary Creely wrote on Tue, 27 November 2007 18:36

Do you guys really think a midas verona, M7CL, or MH4 are really boards that that would make sense for a guy coming out of a mackie looking to go into an entry level soundcraft GB4?



That was exactly our situation when we got our 02R96. Our Mackie SR32 came down with ribbon cable disease.  We were three volunteers, 2 with some other SR experience, all on smaller analog boards.

When the O2R came in, we set it up with a CD player as a source driving headphones, played around with the channel strips, the layers, and the like, found out that it was broken, had it repaired, installed it ourselves, and went live on a Sunday morning.

Quote:


Is this a who has the best taste in sound boards contest, or an attempt to actually give Paul some useful advice.


For us it was not about taste, it was about getting the job done.

I wish that smaller boards were available in digital for reasonable prices. It is my understanding that some patent issues are holding that back, possibly until 2012.




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Gary Creely

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Re: 40 channel mixing console
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2007, 10:18:20 AM »

Arnold,

Your board was not among the ones I mentioned, but these days it would be more sensible to go with an LS9. Some folks were suggesting he look consider mixers which that cost 35k. This guy had a $1200 mixer and was thinking about  a $5700 mixer. My concern was some of the suggestions did not take into account that he was looking for an opinion on the GB4, and probably would welcome suggestions for mixers of a similar ilk.

Paul,

One mixer not mentioned that would also be in that range is the Allen and Heath GL2800, it's similar quality but you get 8 subs, and 10 aux sends and it is just a couple hundred more than the GB4.
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Gary Creely
STEEPLE SOUND
http://www.steeplesoundavl.com


K. Granger

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Re: 40 channel mixing console
« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2007, 10:12:33 PM »

Hi Paul,
To respond to your question, our church has been using the Soundcraft GB4 since we opened our new sanctuary two years ago.  The GB4 has worked flawlessly in that period of time.  The learning curve for teaching new sound guys is minimal, as the board is pretty straight forward and easy to get around.  
We also use the Soundweb London digital snake with a ton of extras.  That part is harder to teach the newbies, but that is not what you asked about.
I agree with one of the other posts that recommends the GB8...if you can swing it.  Having 8 subs would make some things a little easier...like Easter and Christmas productions.
Bottom line, the GB4 has been a great board for the money.  I have no complaints with it.
Hope this helps.

Kelly Granger
Director of Technical Ministries
South Valley Community Church  
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Arnold B. Krueger

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Re: 40 channel mixing console
« Reply #23 on: December 02, 2007, 08:46:53 AM »

Gary Creely wrote on Sat, 01 December 2007 15:18

Arnold,

Your board was not among the ones I mentioned,



Quote:


Agreed. It's relevant because it is a board that is generally regarded to have more of the classic ease-of-use issues than the ones you mentioned. The point being that people who come from Mackies can easily overcome these issues.



Quote:


but these days it would be more sensible to go with an LS9.



In general I might agree with you, but our case illustrates the folly of making recommendations and dis-recommendations without knowing all the relevant facts. 32 inputs isn't enough for us, and a LS9-32 would be waaay too wide. We do video, lighting, sound and two flavors of recording on a shallow desk that is about 15 feet long. Oh, and we store supplies for the users, too.

Quote:


Some folks were suggesting he look consider mixers which that cost 35k. This guy had a $1200 mixer and was thinking about  a $5700 mixer.



I see your point. OTOH we had a $2400 mixer and started thinkng about a $10,000 mixer which was actually a little less extreme. TWe had the money for an A-stock mixer but we did B-stock in the spirit of stewardship.

Quote:


My concern was some of the suggestions did not take into account that he was looking for an opinion on the GB4, and probably would welcome suggestions for mixers of a similar ilk.



The real truth is that everytime I see a church installing a brand new analog mixer in the $5,500 range and up, I think
"They could have spent a tad more and gone digital".  Really.
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Brad Weber

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Re: 40 channel mixing console
« Reply #24 on: December 02, 2007, 04:49:37 PM »

Arnold B. Krueger wrote on Sun, 02 December 2007 08:46

In general I might agree with you, but our case illustrates the folly of making recommendations and dis-recommendations without knowing all the relevant facts.

Quote:

The real truth is that everytime I see a church installing a brand new analog mixer in the $5,500 range and up, I think "They could have spent a tad more and gone digital".  Really.

I agree with the first comment, but the second comment seems to inherently conflict with the first one as it appears to be jumping to a recommendation without even considering any relevant facts about the application.

'Analog' or 'digital' should never be a real factor by itself, if that is the basis for a decision then it is being made for all the wrong reasons.  I would never recommend a console simply because it is analog or digital, the basis should be what works best for the application and that includes factoring in what the church wants regardless of whether that is your personal preference.  Digital consoles are a great solution for many churches, but I shudder when I see people apparently making that decision based simply on it being a digital console.
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Brad Weber
muse Audio Video
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Gary Creely

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Re: 40 channel mixing console
« Reply #25 on: December 02, 2007, 06:09:02 PM »

Quote:

our case illustrates the folly of making recommendations and dis-recommendations without knowing all the relevant facts.


Your statement alone is correct, but in the context of the original post is not in play. He was not asking for a recommendation of a mixing console in general, that would require "all the relevant facts", but rather an opinion on a particular unit.

I agree with Brad that digital for digital sake does not benefit all situations. I like digital consoles, and in many circumstances they are the best solution, but not always. It does seem a little ironic that that you speak of the "folly of making recommendations and dis-recommendations without knowing all the relevant facts" yet you are willing suggest a digital solution for everyone spending more than $5500.
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Gary Creely
STEEPLE SOUND
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Jeff Plumblee

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Re: 40 channel mixing console
« Reply #26 on: December 02, 2007, 06:10:33 PM »

$30,000 is not "a tad more."  
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Arnold B. Krueger

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Re: 40 channel mixing console
« Reply #27 on: December 03, 2007, 10:28:06 PM »

Brad Weber wrote on Sun, 02 December 2007 21:49

Arnold B. Krueger wrote on Sun, 02 December 2007 08:46

In general I might agree with you, but our case illustrates the folly of making recommendations and dis-recommendations without knowing all the relevant facts.

Quote:

The real truth is that everytime I see a church installing a brand new analog mixer in the $5,500 range and up, I think "They could have spent a tad more and gone digital".  Really.


I agree with the first comment, but the second comment seems to inherently conflict with the first one as it appears to be jumping to a recommendation without even considering any relevant facts about the application.



You could read what I wrote: "everytime I see a church installing a brand new analog mixer in the $5,500 range and up,
I think "They could have spent a tad more and gone digital"." as meaning that I'm not considering the relevant facts, or you could consider the part where I said that I *see* the church installing, which means that I'm considering the relevant facts, which is what I meant.


Quote:


'Analog' or 'digital' should never be a real factor by itself, if that is the basis for a decision then it is being made for all the wrong reasons.


I don't know about that. Absent the Behringer DDX3216 which pushed the entry price even lower, almost every time someone pays more than about $2,500 for a mixer, obtaining a digtital mixer (e.g. the 01V96) was a possible choice.

The mixers that we've compared often show the analog mixer giving up valuable functions like 4-band parametric eq, delay, dynamics processing, expandability, scenes, computer interfacing and remote control.

Quote:


I would never recommend a console simply because it is analog or digital,



I agree with that, but that is never the only difference.

Quote:


the basis should be what works best for the application and that includes factoring in what the church wants regardless of whether that is your personal preference.



Totally agreed. But it begs the question, why would someone *not* want the advantages listed above?  I guess one answer might be "simplicity", but what is more intimidating to look at, a LS9 or a GB8-32?  The LS9 looks really simple to me. I love the fact that the knobs I don't want junior ops to mess with aren't on the front panel.

Quote:


>  Digital consoles are a great solution for many churches, but I shudder when I see people apparently making that decision based simply on it being a digital console.


I don't think anybody is saying that you should buy digital just because its digital and digital is the wave of the future. The digital advocates seem to be saying - look what you get for either the same money or a reasonable amount more.
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Gary Creely

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Re: 40 channel mixing console
« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2007, 12:01:23 AM »

Arnold,

Quote:

The digital advocates seem to be saying - look what you get for either the same money or a reasonable amount more.


Digital boards are only a good value when you are going to tap into the functionality they offer. Most church sound guys I find could not explain what a parametric eq is, or have the first idea where to start to use a compressor. For a church with one service and sound guys like I described it seems like a waste to use up a larger part of the budget selling them a mixer that is over kill when I could maybe bump the speakers up a class or two instead.

There are still some rather compelling advantages with analog. Most notably price 32ch LS9 $10,000 compared to $2500 A&H GL2400 32ch. The pre amps on the $2500 Allen and Heath to me sound better than the one's on a $25,000 M7CL IMO. I would say digital is just not in the cards for a lot of churches if for no other reason than budget. Digital is great, but it is frequently not the right solution.


Quote:

You could read what I wrote: "everytime I see a church installing a brand new analog mixer in the $5,500 range and up,
I think "They could have spent a tad more and gone digital"." as meaning that I'm not considering the relevant facts, or you could consider the part where I said that I *see* the church installing, which means that I'm considering the relevant facts, which is what I meant.


not to be a jerk but, huh?
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Gary Creely
STEEPLE SOUND
http://www.steeplesoundavl.com


ProSoundWeb Community

Re: 40 channel mixing console
« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2007, 12:01:23 AM »


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