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Author Topic: New sound system for College Worship Building  (Read 1795 times)

JBurn25

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New sound system for College Worship Building
« on: December 03, 2007, 10:26:26 PM »

Hello everyone,  I'm the current sound guy at a college ministry on the local college campus and I have been put in charge of getting together the new sounds system for the new building we are in the process of developing. Its not a very big building, I'll try and get dimensions later, but its probably going to seat about 300 people. Its a typical rectangular room with only about 10-12 foot ceilings. I'm more  of a studio sound tech, so I was hoping yall could give me some input on whether you think the following gear would be a good base for our sound system.

The sounds system will be used primarily for the college worship services.

Speakers:
(2 or 4) JBL SRX725 Main speakers   mounted ear height on each side of the stage
(2) JBL SRX728S subwoofers

Amps:
(2) Crown XTi2000 Power Amplifier (2000 Watts) for mains
(2) Crown XTi4000 Power Amplifier (3200 Watts) for the subs

Board:
Yamaha LS9- probably a bit pricey and technically above our needs
                  or
Allen and Heath GL2400-32 Mixing Console

Microphones:
(2) Shure SLX4 wireless receivers
(2) Shure SLX2/Beta 87 wireless mics
(3) Shure SM57 (all purpose mics)
(1) Shure PGDMK6 Drum mic kit

Sound Processors:
TC Electronics M-One XL
(2) DBX 266XL Compressr/Gate

I know this is a VERY broad post given the little bit of information I have provided. I'm just wanting to make sure there are not glaring issues you guys have had with any of this gear. I mean I'd love to throw in some Neumans, a Midas board, and some decent outboard gear, but since its a college group and the sound tech changes every few years, I want to make sure people will be able to operate the stuff after I'm gone too.

Thanks,
Jordan

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JBurn25

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Re: New sound system for College Worship Building
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2007, 10:38:15 PM »

Also, we'd like to run a multi-pin type snake from the board in the back of the room up to the stage in the front of the the room. Something where we can disconnect the floor box from a multi-pin outlet in the back of the stage would be nice.

Any recommendations on brands?
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Gary Creely

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Re: New sound system for College Worship Building
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2007, 11:19:19 PM »

Is this going to be portable or installed?
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Gary Creely
STEEPLE SOUND
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JBurn25

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Re: New sound system for College Worship Building
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2007, 10:04:19 AM »

installed
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Gary Creely

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Re: New sound system for College Worship Building
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2007, 10:28:58 AM »



Jordan,

A few thoughts for you, your amps and speakers are made to be portable. There are installed equivalents for each piece you mention. For instance Xti has the Cdi as its installed brother. I would mount the speakers higher than you propose. Keep in mind doing a quality install will cost a good bit more than just the cost of the gear you mentioned.

The hard ware racks, wiring, and accessories really add up fast. question- if it is going to be installed why do you want a multipoint? When you say installed do you mean it is not going to move from that space, or you want it to be a more permanent part of the building?

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Gary Creely
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JBurn25

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Re: New sound system for College Worship Building
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2007, 01:29:00 PM »

Gary, thanks for your response.

We want the system to be a permanent setup in the sense that it won't be moved from week to week, but we want to have the option to upgrade down the road. You see, our building and ministry runs on donations so down the road someone might donate us some speakers or what not and we don't want to have to tear into the dry wall or something to get them out.

Similarly, the reason I thought a multiport would be better is because the stage will be used very very much and take much abuse from the college bands and groups there. I didn't want to install floor boxes because they are much harder to get to and repair if something should short out. Also, we can't pay anyone to install it all so with our mild soldering experience I wouldn't be completely confident in the floor panels. The mutliport snake would just pop out of the wall on the back of the stage with the option to disconnect it if we needed to clear the stage for a skit or what not. Also, it would be alot easier to repair.

I value others opinions so let me know if my logic is flawed.

I'll definitely check out the installed version of those amps. Just for future reference, what would be the differnece in the mobile vs. isntalled version of the amps?

So mounting the speakers at the height that they would normally be if there were on poles is not a good idea? I was under the impression that it was better to have the speakers pointing straight out, a little above the head of the listener, than say on the ceiling pointed down. Also, the floor is going to be ceramic tile (much to my disagreement).

thanks for the help so far,

Jordan
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Gary Creely

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Re: New sound system for College Worship Building
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2007, 02:59:40 PM »

Jordan Burnham wrote on Tue, 04 December 2007 13:29

Gary, thanks for your response.

You see, our building and ministry runs on donations so down the road someone might donate us some speakers or what not and we don't want to have to tear into the dry wall or something to get them out.

Similarly, the reason I thought a multiport would be better is because the stage will be used very very much and take much abuse from the college bands and groups there.


I didn't want to install floor boxes because they are much harder to get to and repair if something should short out. Also, we can't pay anyone to install it all so with our mild soldering experience I wouldn't be completely confident in the floor panels. The mutliport snake would just pop out of the wall on the back of the stage with the option to disconnect it if we needed to clear the stage for a skit or what not. Also, it would be alot easier to repair.


I'll definitely check out the installed version of those amps. Just for future reference, what would be the differnece in the mobile vs. isntalled version of the amps?

So mounting the speakers at the height that they would normally be if there were on poles is not a good idea? I was under the impression that it was better to have the speakers pointing straight out, a little above the head of the listener, than say on the ceiling pointed down. Also, the floor is going to be ceramic tile (much to my disagreement).



Jordan,

Lots of good questions and comments let me tackle a few of them.

The multi pin snake connector is not really less prone to failure than floor pockets or a standard snake. If anything it is more prone to fail from the sense that it adds an other connection point in the signal chain that would not be there in a floor pocket or a standard snake. In terms of clearing the stage the hard part would be unplugging all the stuff plugged into the stage box, after that you could just move the stage box out of the way provided you have enough extra cable. I don't see that much benefit in removing the stage box entirely. The reason I would direct you away from the multi pin is two fold, one is a good one costs several thousand bucks, and I simply see very little benefit.

Depending on the depth of the room you probably want the bottom of the speakers to be just above peoples heads if they are on poles as a minimum height.

The difference between the installed and portable versions of the amps is mostly connection type XLR vrs euro block connectors, the portable amps typically have speakon outputs only.

Honestly it sounds like you may be best served doing the portable gear and maybe running the speaker and snake in a some what more permanent manor. That would allow you the flexibility you need and keep costs down.

I would however suggest springing for the LS9 if you can.



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Gary Creely
STEEPLE SOUND
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Brad Weber

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Re: New sound system for College Worship Building
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2007, 05:22:15 PM »

You noted that this is a new building under development.  I would first focus on what you need the system to do and getting power, grounding, conduit, equipment and operator space, etc. into the plans.  This is especially relevant since you mentioned potential expansion and it is much easier and less expensive to get power, conduit and boxes in during construction than to have to add them later.

You didn't mention what types of events or services are involved.  How many musicians?  Does it need to support any special events?  Basically. what are you wanting to do and support with the system?  You also did not mention the room finishes or acoustics and that is something to consider as early as possible in parallel with the audio system.

If the speakers are going to be 'permanent' then it is worth looking at their performance in the space such as the resulting level and coverage and then selecting speakers at least partially based on those considerations.  Again, maybe you have done this but the comment regarding providing either 1 or 2 mains per side indicates this might not have yet been considered.

Do you plan on performing the actual system design, installation and testing/tuning all with existing staff and volunteers?  If you have some people with install experience that might work fine, otherwise you might want some help even if just to make sure that things like proper labeling, wiring conventions and mounting methods are employed.

A couple of things jump out in the equipment listed.  One is that there seem to be no provisions for monitors, which is odd given the mic complement and application.  Another is that there is no system processing (crossover, system EQ, limiting, etc.).  I also don't see any cables, stands, racks, etc., these can add a lot to the overall budget both in direct cost and the related installation effort.

They use floor boxes in professional stages, convention floors and so forth with no problems.  One problem with a single snake is that you end up with cables all over the stage floor, which not only looks bad and tends to lead to things getting damaged but also presents a potential trip hazard, which a college campus may prefer to avoid.
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Brad Weber
muse Audio Video
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: New sound system for College Worship Building
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2007, 05:22:15 PM »


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