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Author Topic: 1st Church install What do you think?  (Read 4343 times)

Benny Slater

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1st Church install What do you think?
« on: September 03, 2007, 06:28:34 pm »

Well got it all installed and tuned in, Basicly kinda first church i ever done but it turned out ok i think. Here is some pics

here is the rack so far.
http://i4.tinypic.com/63mf9jq.jpg

Pic of middle and rear speakers seperately amped and eq'ed.
i color matched the paint so they could camoflauge as good as possibale
http://i13.tinypic.com/5xp76hl.jpg

Here are the front Mains we painted them brick color to camoflauge them, turned out really good, if you walk into church and dont try to see them you dont even notice them
http://i18.tinypic.com/62oop6w.jpg

another pic of front main speaker mounted on brick, Pic is dark cant really see that well on this one
http://i12.tinypic.com/6fpgj06.jpg

The eq's
top is L and R main
bottom eq is 1/2 on middle speakers and 1/2 on rear speakers
notice the sliders? what do you think? on top EQ 10K is actually down -12db now so that pic isnt accurate, Ill go into how i EQ'ed the system later cause i have a few questions maby some one would be kind enough to awnser.
http://i17.tinypic.com/4zy1ff7.jpg

The mixer. Notice where mic level sliders are in asscoiation to master level. I do have a few questions on that but i am getting no noise at all and no feedback at all so i am going to think it is ok, but if you have any better suggestions please. I just not too fimilliar with how to get MOL on each mic and MOL throught the system, espically keeping the mic sensitivity inputs set right( witch i am not shure if low sensitivity or high sens is better, i have it somewhere in the middle right now tho)
http://i13.tinypic.com/4l5wweo.jpg

as far as eqing the system basicily i just ran pink noise throug the system right into a input, set all levels and input eq to 0 than set measurement mic in the immidate general area of each individual speaker turned on each speaker seperately and moved mic to infront of each speaker as i worked my way through out each eq bank and each speaker associated with eq. after seperately eqing each speaker i turned on fronts got a acceptable spl measurement with mic in audiance area. moved mic torwards middle of room set turned up middle speakers so SPL was same as the measurement i measured with mic in fron main area. than did the same for the rears so i have set SPL to have same responce in all listening areas. than i went back to pinknoise and RTA. put ythe mic an a wide variaty of areas, to my suprise responce was actually pretty flat eveywhere i had to do small cus here and there and there are some areas or nodes in room that cancel some freq's but not more than 2db+/-. So now i think i have a relitavely smooth SPLand Freq responce throughout the room.

Next i got each mic and labeled tem to be used ONLY in corrsponding inputs on mixer. Than i got a small 4inch test speaker with a seperate 30 band eq. Set test speaker for max flat with mich 4" from test speaker. I set test speaker SPL to 100db@ 4" away. Than i took test speaker and put it 4" away from each mic. Put measurement mic in front of a main speaker and turned on olny that main speaker. With pinknoise running throug test speaker and into mic, i ajusted each mic inputEQ to have equal SPL and responce. i set 100HZHP filter to ON and set to flat. SO after i was done all that, We tryed it out. Results are SICK, meaning great, at least to me for a first timer. Everyone seems to be happy but if you have any suggestins again, Please.

Than as far as noise gate and compression, i went with hard compression setting instead of overeasy but i really cant tell much of a diffrance but if you have a reccomendatiopn Please feel free because i dont know enough about it. Compression threshold is at -20db with a 4:1 ratio. What do you think? I have been very careful to notice if anyone has been "eating" there mic, seems OK but like i said it was kind of a quick read owners manual and a best guess with some common sence setting. In reality i havent a clue what is better for this application.

Do you think i should use a delay?

If anyone has any comments or experiance or Suggection, i am all ears. This is the first church i have ever done and i did it for Free Because i love the Lord. so please if you have any reccomendations to make it the best it can be please LMK.

Benny
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Gary Creely

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Re: 1st Church install What do you think?
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2007, 07:25:06 pm »

Benny,

1. Over all not a terrible job for a first stab, but some issues.

2. That is the first time I ever saw speakers painted like bricks, very cool !

3. Yes, you certainly do need delays for rear speakers.

4. You could have done all your processing in a single dsp unit (including delay), rather than the several analog units. It may still be cost effective to get a dsp, and trade the eqs, and compressor, rather than just getting an additional delay.

5. I am not a fan of behringer, and have found spending a couple dollars more on better gear is well worth it. (the same goes for the consumer grade decks mounted on universal rack trays)

6. I am assuming the compression is in the signal chain between the board and the amps, in which case it sounds like you may have it set too aggressively , but that is a total guess with having some more info. Global compression like that usually serves one of two purposes. One is to protect the gear from being overdriven, and the second is to limit the volume level in the room. To protect from a "mic eater", one typically inserts compression directly into the offending channel.

7. I am not sure about speaker placement, the wall around them may cause some issues that would be difficult to deal with with only an rta.

8. Lastly, I have gone over many in house installation jobs in my day, from what I can see I would grade this as a B- job (better than most I deal with). The installation is neat, you get bonus points for the brick speakers, but you lose a few points for gear selection(amps) and Processing (DSP was in oder). Over all not bad. If you were a pro however, the grade would be a D-.


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Gary Creely
STEEPLE SOUND
http://www.steeplesoundavl.com


Benny Slater

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Re: 1st Church install What do you think?
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2007, 09:37:24 pm »

Thanks Smile
Well the money was limited being it was donated and everything had to be replaced. The orginal system had to be 60 yrs old at least.
So the driveracks kept putting us overbudget. We purcaced a few floor monitors as well. We added a second 8 channel mixer in the coir loft that we are going line out into a input on main system.  That way i could add more mics upstairs but use the one XLR cable that was already installed up there. So we went that way and ate up allot of budget for convience and not tearing up this old building to pull unnessassary wires. So i had very little choice. So after figureing out what the needs of the church are and the budget and the guy we kinda had to order the stuff from (buddy of a parishoner) this is what we ended up with. The consumer grade deck was a last minute thing to be able to record onto CD instead of a tape deck. OOh well it will probbabbly never get used. The old speaker were in the lights and the lights are so old the metal cans just vibrate and rattle with speaker. So we decided to use wall mount speakers, Just for sound quality and that way we arent messing with the "antique lighting" (ha ha). It was kinda a need of the pastor that we want to keep it looking as original as possibale but make it sound really really good. So i think i did the best i could, Thanks for the support. So with what i have inthere now what delay proccessor would you reccomend? I would olny need two delay channels right?

Thanks
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: 1st Church install What do you think? Over EQ
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2007, 12:30:45 pm »

The reason you are having to run your faders so high is that you have waaayyyy over eqed the system.  Just because there are 31 bands does not mean that you need to use all of them Laughing

Once you get past a certain point all you are doing is creating holes that you are trying to fix with other bands.

When you have that many bands cut, all you are doing is dropping the overall gain of the system.
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Can I have some more talent in the monitors--PLEASE?

Ivan Beaver
dB Audio & Video Inc.

Yan Ovtchinikov

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Re: 1st Church install What do you think? Over EQ
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2007, 09:49:43 pm »


First lesson point on equalization techniques i learned was "try to never cut more then 6 bands"


Yan Ovtchinikov
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Ira White

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Re: 1st Church install What do you think?
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2007, 03:47:55 am »

Really unusual on the brick speakers! Was that screen printed? Depends on what angle you look from though. Why didn't they try Clear paint?  Laughing
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Ira White
Sanctuary Sound, Inc.

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Richard Starkenberg

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Re: 1st Church install What do you think? Over EQ
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2007, 01:34:43 pm »

Yan Ovtchinikov wrote on Wed, 05 September 2007 03:49


First lesson point on equalization techniques i learned was "try to never cut more then 6 bands"


Yan Ovtchinikov


Second lesson point for me was cut narrow (high Q) and boost wide (low Q).

Peace

/Richard
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Karl P(eterson)

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Re: 1st Church install What do you think?
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2007, 01:32:18 pm »

The metal grill can also be shot with white enamel (or ordered that way) and then airbrushed. Latex is too thick and causes all sorts of potential problems, whereas a very fine paint like that used in spray cans or air brushes would be fine. This is of course assuming that we are using speakers with real grills.....


Karl P
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Benny Slater

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Re: 1st Church install What do you think?
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2007, 10:48:06 pm »

^Thanks

Well the Grilles are metal and we used a lazer level across the natural brick to draw lines with pencil, Than used 3 colors of spray paint to make brick masked off the color and sprayed a phony mortar line into them, Looks well, wouldnt have done it with cloth grills.

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Mack Ryans

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Re: 1st Church install What do you think?
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2007, 05:34:12 pm »

Very cool Pictures, Where is this church at again?
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Re: 1st Church install What do you think?
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2007, 05:34:12 pm »


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