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[David Zetino]

Hi, we are going to start a video ministry and we are not sure what to buy.
Our budget is $ 3500 - $ 5000 with a church attendance of 400 people (and growing), we want to start with the most simple equipment but yet good quality and as the church keeps on growing we'll add more and better equipment.

basically what we need is :
- one camera to be front or principal
- a video mixer
- another camera to be pointing at the people or moving around
- a dvd recorder
- a dvd/cd duplicator

I have recorded special events before, with my panasonic pv-gs150 a 3ccd camera of my own as principal camera and other 2 cameras non 3ccd morelike dvcam and recorded the audio from the sound mixer unto a cd and mix and edit the whole thing on Sony Vegas and DVD Arquitec, and it came out really good, in exeption of the video quality of the other two, i guess i can use my camera in church for a little while.

so we are looking for two things:

1) being able to record a service or event and sell the dvd right after the service

and  

2) in some events record and edit with more time and produce a nice dvd with features and menus and all of that (which we've done before)

thanks for taking your time

[Brad Weber]

Before you start planning on how much to spend on equipment, take a step back and look at it as a complete project.  How are you going to mount the cameras?  Do you need wall mounts or pan/tilts or tripods or dollies?  What about cabling and hardware?  Do you need equipment racks and/or a desk?  Where will the cameras be located?  Do you have cabling paths to those locations?  Might you need risers?  What about lighting, do you have good lighting or will that limit you?  Is additional lighting a possibility?  Where are you going to purchase the equipment and who is going to install it, test it, train you on it, etc.?  You may quickly find that easily 1/4-1/2 of your budget is spent on all the ancillary items that may relate to these types of questions.

You should also consider whether this is something that is intended to grow or if it is the end result.  If this is something you feel may grow, the it often makes more sense to do without some things now and focus on getting better equipment that you don't end up replacing in a couple of years.  Probably the last thing you want to do is spend the entire budget to try to do everything and then have it be less than satisfactory.

Another consideration, do you also use projection?  Do you want to be able to record what is on the screen?  How long before someone thinks "Hmmm...projectors...cameras...let's do IMag!"  This could impact what you need.

I guess the main thing is to step back and think of how this fits into the whole picture.  Is it something being thrown together or part of a larger long term plan?  Then approach it accordingly.

[David Zetino]

ok to anwser some questions:

no, we don't have cabling, nor hardware
yes, we're thinking on tripods and risers, and maybe pan/tilt
yes, we have good lighting, and we have extra light
yes we use projector, but not thinking on putting whats on it ( at least for now)
and no, we don''t have anyone to install it, or training

these are our very first steps into video ministry, so if you know of someone around the area (central, new jersey), it would help.

[Brad Weber]

Is the budget based on some ideas or concepts you had or is it simply a budget assigned without any real basis?  If you had any concepts or equipment that were used in establishing the budget it might be easier if you identified them.

At 400 seats "and growing" you are looking at a very low budget for what is essentially a small video production, recording and duplication system.  Providing the capabilities you noted with entry level pro equipment (entry level Canon/JVC/Panasonic cameras, lower end Bogen tripod systems, a small Edirol type mixer, DVD recorder and duplicator, etc.) provided through and installed by a professional contractor would probably be at least double the budget you have available.  Depending on the field work involved and the specifics needed to make everything work, it could even be significantly higher.
 
Reputable contractors will often not work with consumer equipment since they cannot directly sell or support it, but if you did all the work yourself and purchased consumer equipment like your current camcorder directly from discount suppliers, then you might get it in budget.  That means that you have to develop a system concept, figure out how to put everything together and connect it, run and terminate cables, deal with any power or conduit issues, get it all working, and then take care of any problems.  You may be well capable of this, it is the only way I see much chance of you getting everything you want within your budget.

You could also consider initially installing only one camera and the recording and duplication equipment along with as much cabling for expansion as possible, then adding the production switcher and additional cameras later.  Having a simple but higher quality product to start often helps in getting more funding.

You said you wanted quality and I admittedly work in the pro world and am not overly familiar with the consumer options, so I'm not going to be much help on specific suggestions in that area.  I'm sure that others may have some suggestions on how you can do it cheaply or on what they actually spent for similar systems.

[Gary D.]

Hi David,

My church is heading in the similar direction as your church, but we don't have a budget yet (and my church is a 2000+ and growing church).  For a quality video set-up, we got a quote for $90K...so that's on hold for now.  
Our current set-up is using someones personal Canon GL2 camera ($2000) mounted on a Bogen fluid head tripod ($450)which is recorded onto tape (we attempted streaming and capturing via Firewire, but it was fast enough).  The Canon does double duty as it also broadcasts via Edirol mixer ($900) the service onto large screens and to other rooms.  The video is later captured into a MacPro ($2500) using FinalCutPro ($1300) and edited.  It's quite a labor intensive process.  Hopefully, you will have the volunteers to be able and dedicated to do this on a regular basis.  With all the labor involved, it probably will not satify your requirement of being able to sell them right after service.  This process also does not include the digitized audio that is captured and sync-ed up with the video or any of the cabling that is involved.

Just thought I'd share a little experience I have.

[David Zetino]

thanks Gary, you are a bless! I was just looking for your answer, we're going to try the cannon and edirol for now, thanks for your confirmation!!!

[Brad Weber]

David Zetino wrote on Thu, 28 December 2006 12:38

thanks Gary, you are a bless! I was just looking for your answer, we're going to try the cannon and edirol for now, thanks for your confirmation!!!

I have to admit that this response has me a little confused.  Gary's response seemed to confirm what I noted earlier, that what you were asking for appeared to represent quite a bit more than your budget.

You identified wanting two cameras.  If you add up just two cameras and two tripods/heads along with the switcher Gary mentioned (which just happen to all be the same models I assumed in my earlier comments) you are at $5,800, which is already well over the budget you noted and includes no DVD recorder, no CD/DVD duplicator and no editing/production equipment as well as no cabling or hardware and no installation, setup, testing, etc.

Just want to be sure that you understand that you can't just add up the main equipment prices and assume that is the total cost, the ancillary items required to get a functioning system can routinely run 25% or more of the major item cost and that does not include any fees for design or installation.

[Ole Anderson]

Our Budget system:

Three single chip consumer Mini-DV JVC camcorder $1800 (no tape)
Videonic's MX-Pro switcher (analog) $2000 (heart of the system)
50'-100' S-video cables $300
Misc cables $100
Consumer Panasonic DV-RAM recorder  $150
Two 19" Panasonic TV's for video room monitors  $400
Two pair consumer Motorola Walkie Talkies w/earplugs $120
Three consumer tripods, one converted to mount on back of pew at aisle 3 rows back from the front, one head only for permanent mount overlooking sanctuary from front, one stand up position at side aisle, also 3 rows back. $200

We take audio from the FOH mixer as a stereo aux signal directly to the DVR so we have no syncing issues. In addition to the FOH mix we add an overhead mic for congregation ambient sound which only goes to the video, not FOH.

Live 3 camera mix, cut it down to the allotted time on my home computer, add standard beginning and end, burn final copies on home computer for public access and interested members (baptism families for example). Cheap Charlie, but it gives the community a flavor of our worship with acceptable video and good audio quality.  And we feed a live signal to the nursery.  We do use a SVHS recorder for backup.  Need a lot more talent on cameras and mixer though.  Been doing this for 10 years with various progressions of equipment.  

By doing a live edit and starting with the beginning already on the DVD, and using the correct format, it would be possible to burn DVD's right after the service, but not if you do any editing, as it is time consuming, particularly if your program requires rendering.

Current setup is about $5k.  It can be done.

Three chip cameras would be nice along with digital camera feeds to a digital mixer.

[ProSoundWeb Community]