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[Jeremy Peters]

Guys. Anybody know of a decently priced 4x16 HDMI matrix switcher? Thanks in advance!

[Brad Weber]

Guys. Anybody know of a decently priced 4x16 HDMI matrix switcher? Thanks in advance!

You need to change your Alias or displayed name to your real name or the thread will get locked.
 
What do you consider "decently priced"?  Does it need to be HDCP compliant?

[Jeremy Peters]

Thanks, Brad I will change it to what I really prefer-my real name!

I saw some priced at over 4K and that is a big no no. I do not require HDCP.
The application calls for routing video from upto four sources over a HDMI network to various TVs located in different locations at our church.

[Karl Maciag]

4K for that amount of I/O is reasonable.  Be careful sending HDMI over long distances.  Your limit using regular cables is around 45 ft.  After that you will need to switch to a CAT5 type transmitter and receiver,  or a HDMI equalizer that can allow a HDMI cable run of 100-200 ft depending on the equalizer used.  More than a couple hundred ft,  and you will start looking at fiber solutions. 

[Brad Weber]

Be careful sending HDMI over long distances.  Your limit using regular cables is around 45 ft.  After that you will need to switch to a CAT5 type transmitter and receiver,  or a HDMI equalizer that can allow a HDMI cable run of 100-200 ft depending on the equalizer used.  More than a couple hundred ft,  and you will start looking at fiber solutions.

Karl brings up a good point about the distances involved and if most of the destinations would be addressed using video over UTP/CAT or fiber, then it may be more cost effective to route the UTP or fiber rather than HDMI.

[Christopher Young]

Thanks, Brad I will change it to what I really prefer-my real name!

I saw some priced at over 4K and that is a big no no. I do not require HDCP.
The application calls for routing video from upto four sources over a HDMI network to various TVs located in different locations at our church.

Why HDMI but not HDCP compliant?  The reason I ask is, you may be surprised what sources won't output to non-compliant devices.  While I've yet to run into this myself, rumours abound with cheap laptops and blue ray players that won't output non-protected content if they see a non-compliant device in the chain.

We've only just started dealing with digital installations and it is proving to be a headache.

 I hate to say it but, if  4K for a 4*16 switcher is too much, you probably can't afford to go this route.  Kramer makes the PT-571/572 transmitter receiver for about 180 per box, so that's an extra 400 per display.  You may get away with a standard cable for some, but the rest will need something like this.  Unless that part was already in the budget and I assume too much 

What are the intended sources?

[Karl Maciag]

Good point Chris about HDCP.  I'm finding it harder and harder to even find HDMI devices that don't accommodate HDCP.  If budget is that big of a concern,  I would go analog,  and send hi-res using RGBHV, or even component signals.  But then the issue will arise soon that some sources won't output 1080 anything over an analog output......Oh the joys of changing standards.  Just to give you an idea,  a church customer of mine bought a 8x8 HDMI matrix,  and CAT5 extenders to reach a couple local displays, and 4 long distance ones.  They did the installation, and it still came in more than $8000 for the hardware.  I'd save your money and make sure you can do it right the first time.  Good luck!

[Christopher Young]

Oh the joys of changing standards. 

Yup, because our main sources are DVD/VHS, document cameras and laptops, I've been dragged kicking and screaming into HDMI. 

It's not that I'm a Luddite, it's just that most of the media in the library is VHS or DVD, and so far all the laptops come with VGA out.  The more I learn about and implement HDMI the madder I get.  Pro AV has been totally disregarded by the industry and we have to run around putting very expensive band aid solutions on big installations just to protect content that is going to get hacked anyway.  Argghhh.  Now I'm mad again.   

[Brad Weber]

Pro AV has been totally disregarded by the industry and we have to run around putting very expensive band aid solutions on big installations just to protect content that is going to get hacked anyway.

I've also heard the perspective from some within the pro AV industry that it may not have so much been us being disregarded as it was us choosing to not be proactive, possibly because of the perspective at that time that it involved consumer products and thus didn't directly affect us.
 
I'm actually in the midst of a project with a facility upgrading their rooms to accommodate widescreen projection, HDMI, DVI, HD-SDI, AirPlay, etc.  They envision more and more people walking in with a tablet or even a smartphone as the source for their presentations.

[Jonathan Kok]

I've also heard the perspective from some within the pro AV industry that it may not have so much been us being disregarded as it was us choosing to not be proactive, possibly because of the perspective at that time that it involved consumer products and thus didn't directly affect us.
 
I'm actually in the midst of a project with a facility upgrading their rooms to accommodate widescreen projection, HDMI, DVI, HD-SDI, AirPlay, etc.  They envision more and more people walking in with a tablet or even a smartphone as the source for their presentations.

Not too sure I agree with you (or rather, 'them') on that.  While I understand their point, ProAV ignored it because ProAV has no need for it.  It IS a consumer item.  Unfortunately, the studios added things to it that have now forced our hand.  If HDCP did not exist, laptops and blu-ray players wouldn't need HDMI.  The concept that 1080p resolutions won't work over component has been debunked long ago.  Outside of the home, very few installations make use of 7.1 surround sound.
Now, we're stuck spending a lot of extra money on the components we need just to make it work AS WELL as, say, VGA.  Not better...just AS WELL.  Ridiculous.

EDIT: Aaand back on topic...
You may not think you need HDCP, but if you're in any way looking to the future, it'd be silly not to ensure some sort of HDCP compliance.  It doesn't have to be smooth...it just has to work.  $4K is actually a pretty good price on an 8x16 matrix switcher.

[Christopher Young]

I just read something else that is a bit annoying as well,  no more component out on Blu ray players in the very near future. Get one while you still can.  For those who were ok with the slightly lower resolution so as not to have to deal with HDCP, too bad.  I don't know how we got here, but now we have to pay big dollars to protect their content.

[jerry nuckolls]

Guys. Anybody know of a decently priced 4x16 HDMI matrix switcher? Thanks in advance!

I would take a look at 2 solutions:

Crestron DM (out of price range)
http://www.crestron.com

Just add power 2g series: Excellent Product at the right price.  You can create a matrix of roughly 200 i/o.  Easily expandable.

http://www.justaddpower.com

[Craig Hauber]

what sucks is dealing with legacy systems or systems that are in the 16x32 range.  I'm finding more and more customer supplied input devices no longer have anything but HDMI and I installed component analog a few years ago when HDMI matrices were either non-existant or eye-wateringly pricey!
HDMI baluns are still sketchy in behavior with 1080p over 150'  Even with baluns using supposedly "cheap" cat series cable actually recommend thier special branded low-skew cat-7 type line at over $1/ft!
-and even then you are still fighting EDID issues that even the manufacturers scratch thier heads over.
In my opinion, HDMI is short for "time to retire and go sit on a beach somewhere" :-)

Has anyone had any success with HDfury or is there a ZVbox type product with and HDCP compliant HDMI input?

[Brad Weber]

Has anyone had any success with HDfury or is there a ZVbox type product with and HDCP compliant HDMI input?

For what purpose?  The HDFury products are intended specifically to convert an analog video input into an HDCP compliant HDMI input, they are not intended for, and in the US illegal to use for such purposes, to bypass the DRM and convert HDMI to a high resolution analog signal in order to then route, distribute or record that analog signal.  There are streaming encoders with HDMI and/or DVI inputs, but I don't believe they support HDCP.
 
I actually heard the comment several times at InfoComm last week that supported the perspective that the commercial AV industry blew it in terms of HDMI, primarily in the context of not being proactive in offering or promoting a viable alternative.  This seems to be an increasing factor as 'consumer' level content creation and content sources seem to be an increasingly common element in many 'professional' and 'commercial' applications.  At the same time, many manufacturers of AV routing and distribution equipment seem to be getting much better versed at addressing HDCP and EDID issues including some creative solutions (some of which are playing in gray areas, not illegal but rather not clearly defined, regarding how they address DRM).  You also saw a number of HDBasetT and AVB based routing and distribution products being introduced.
 
One problem for professional AV applications that has become increasingly apparent is that while the HDCP requirements require content protection to be enabled when the content calls for it, nothing prohibits product manufacturers from enabling content protection at all times.  Thus you are finding some source devices, especially consumer and 'prosumer' products, that enable HDCP whether the content flags it or not.
 
Another problem I've encountered is that systems and devices that may involve HDCP can be difficult to integrate with SDI or HD-SDI based 'production' systems.  Because it essentially results in a direct digital 'copy' without the DRM, all of the HDMI-to-SDI conversion devices I've looked at will not accept HDCP encrypted content.  When you combine this with the above point it can become a real problem with some sources simply not being able to be converted regardless of the content.
 
And we haven't even touched on EDID issues such as which 'handshake' a sources gets when feeding multiple devices determines the output format and resolution from the source device.
 
Another comment that came up several times regarded that Netflix and similar media traffic now represented something like 40% of all internet traffic and is pushing much of the infrastructure of their available infrastructure as well as that of the internet providers.  This may lead to some constraints on bandwidth or users for such media providers or at least some liability for the effects of their services on other parties.

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