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[Tom Young]

You have the rather fascinating ability to almost get it and miss the point(s) entirely. Clearly you also go way out of your way to alienate yourself here.

I drove by a Department of Physics at a major university once. Guess that makes me Stephen Hawking.

Your single nugget of near intelligence and wisdom is this:

"However, with the help of a qualified engineer a rigging system is possible to make and save lots of money from buying one and having a professional crew come in."

The only part missing is that this would only be valid if the *licensed* engineer also inspected the final installation and provided a certificate or letter of acceptance...... with his stamp. This is true of either scenario.

Otherwise your suggested method is simply a half-baked attempt that may save money but puts at risk folks' welfare amd safety.

[Brad Weber]

Jerry Dallons wrote on Sat, 26 August 2006 13:26

Oh Brad ................ I think I read "I would appreciate any comments"  ........ Thank you ahead of time for your apology .......   As far as your other comment you are implying that I don't know how to engineer the rigging ........... Hummmmmmmmm ............. Are you a prophet ............. I guess you must be one of those "false prophets then ......

What I said was "Maybe you have the expertise to make such assessments on what hardware is appropriate and to rig things yourself but most churches don't.", I'm not sure how that implies that you don't know how to rig.  And since you apparently aren't a Structural Engineer but have had some relevant education, you should know that you are not qualified to "engineer" the rigging.

I was concerned that your comment that "If you can't afford professional rigging gear go to any good electric warehouse and ask to look at the "Uni-strut" stuff. It works wonderful for platform rigging to fly your speakers." might lead people to believe that they could simply throw something together with unistrut and have the equivalent to a professional rigging installation. There is much, much more to a safe installation and any rigging should be "professional" whether it uses ATM, Allen Products or Polar Focus hardware or a custom rig.

[Guest]

Can you imagine if Realators tried to certify commericial buidings for earthquake standards in California? They are certainly knowlegeable about the requirements. Talk about ethics issues....

[Jerry Dallons]

Come on guys, I'm one of the few Realtors, sound guys that have a degree from the best, yes I'll say it again, best structural engineering schools in the world ...........

Cal Poly, San Luis Obispo  ...............

Ok, come on now, go check it out for yourselves ..........

There is a common denominator about most of you big wig boys ........

Your all paid professionals that do this for a living .......

And I'm just a Realtor who donates his time as a sound engineer to all the evangelical churches in my part of the woods ............

Maybe I'm ruffling a few feathers because I'm giving away free what you guys charge for .............

Come on now, "let the children come"  ...........  

Ol' layman Jerry will lay hands on the lil' ones and help them without charging ..............

[Brad Duryea]

Jerry Dallons wrote on Mon, 28 August 2006 10:55

Come on guys, I'm one of the few Realtors, sound guys that have a degree from the best, yes I'll say it again, best structural engineering schools in the world ........... Cal Poly, San Luis Obispo  ...............

At no time has anyone questioned your credentials. People, however, have (justifiably) objected to the idea of suggesting to others that rigging is easy to do. Everyone should respect the risks of rigging loudspeakers -- that is the sole point. This isn't about you.

Quote:

There is a common denominator about most of you big wig boys ........ Your all paid professionals that do this for a living ....... And I'm just a Realtor who donates his time as a sound engineer to all the evangelical churches in my part of the woods ............ Maybe I'm ruffling a few feathers because I'm giving away free what you guys charge for .............

Well, I suppose you must have an issue with most pastors and support staff at churches all over the planet, then.

You aren't ruffling feathers because you do this for free. To the contrary, I consider that to be very generous of you. But keep in mind that we are on a forum where everyone is donating their time to help others, so I suppose your point is moot. You'll also notice that nobody's soliciting business here -- we're recommending that people use structural engineers where appropriate. That doesn't have anything to do with us making money. It's just good (and free) advice.

Best regards,
Brad

[edited for clarity]

[Tom Young]

Please get your cover story right. First you say you "attended" Cal Poly and now you say you have an engineering degree from them ?

Folks I know with degrees, licenses, etc are not ambiguous at all about what they have accomplished.

I smell BS.

As for donating your expertise; I strongly suggest that donating anything often requires little qualification nor competiveness. Churches, perhaps more than others, are notorious for accepting any/all free advice they can get. More often than not this is how they end up with the problems that we help to solve (or at least steer in right direction) here.

That is hardly an issue to brag about, as far as I am concerned.

It is remarkable how deep a hole you have dug in such a short period of time.

[Ivan Beaver]

Jerry Dallons wrote on Mon, 28 August 2006 11:55

Maybe I'm ruffling a few feathers because I'm giving away free what you guys charge for ............. Come on now, "let the children come"  ...........   Ol' layman Jerry will lay hands on the lil' ones and help them without charging ..............

And probably worth all monies paid.

[Jerry Dallons]

You big wig boys should go check your motives. You now question my expertise as being worth nothing because I do it for free .....

You know something, I've been offered several sound jobs from mega churches ............

I've turned them all down ...........

You know why? I didn't hear the Holy Spirit telling me to go for it.

I did get paid from Vineyard Ministries. Paid well ........

In 1991 I was offered the head sound position at Grace Church in Saint Louis to replace Curt Taipale. Many Hosanna Integrity soungs were recorded in the early years at grace. They flew me out there for a week. I did several FOH mixes and then was offered a handsome salary with benefits along with free housing ..........

I turned down the offer ..........

Since then I've been in real estate and I get several offers a year and I've turned them all down.

The good Lord has chosen me to just be a Realtor which allows me to donate lots of time to several churches to help them educate sound personal & to help put together good sound systems at a reasonable cost.

It is sad how often I walk into a church that has great equipment but no one that knows how to use it. Most of the time the equipment is professionally installed.

Just last week I ran over to a church that had offered me a job (I turned it down) only to find a very nice active 3 way system.  Had lots of goodies on the rack, even a Shure P4800. No one knew what it was.  The churches problem was a sound system that only gave good low end. I checked the program on the P4800 and it was all screwed up. After about 90 minutes I had it tamed and sounding great. The Pastor asked if he could pay me for my time. I said no.

This Thursday I will donate my time to another church who is doing a outdoor outreach gig. I'm not charging them a dime.

2 weeks from next weekend I'll be teaching a weekend sound engineering class at a large worship conference.

Nope, I didn't charge them.

If you take a good look in the good Book regarding tithe, you will find that giving ones money is only part of the story. God said to give of the fruits/labors of your hands. This was the way God used to not allow rich people to only give money!  Think about it for a second, you are to also give of your time and energy when it comes of your occupation.

That is not to say that getting paid for your work is not ok, just remember there are times that you do it for free ......

Many churches can not afford professional help, that's where I come in. To badger me about my qualifications shows a lack of true Kingdom understanding. You guys should be supporting my ministry, not money wise but a prayer here and there would be a great start.

[Mac Kerr]

Jerry Dallons wrote on Tue, 29 August 2006 00:44

If you take a good look in the good Book regarding tithe, you will find that giving ones money is only part of the story. God said to give of the fruits/labors of your hands. This was the way God used to not allow rich people to only give money!  Think about it for a second, you are to also give of your time and energy when it comes of your occupation. That is not to say that getting paid for your work is not ok, just remember there are times that you do it for free ...... Many churches can not afford professional help, that's where I come in. To badger me about my qualifications shows a lack of true Kingdom understanding. You guys should be supporting my ministry, not money wise but a prayer here and there would be a great start.

It's great that you feel the call to donate your time to the churches you worship at. You seem to mistaken however about the purpose of this forum. This forum is not here to promote worship, or to save money for churches. This forum is here to promote high quality audio while keeping in mind the special needs and circumstances of the church environment. It is also not about self promotion, which seems to be a large part of every one of your posts. If you want to include a line in your signature that says what a great sound engineer you are, go ahead, that's part of why there are sigs, but I'm sure everyone is as tired of hearing you tout your accomplishments as I am. There are professionals here who call themselves professionals because that is what they are. Keep up the participation, but deal with your self esteem issues somewhere else.

Mac

[Guest]

Quote:

I'll be teaching a weekend sound engineering class at a large worship conference

But aren't you a structural engineer?

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