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Author Topic: Aux Fed Subs  (Read 15775 times)

Ian Stuart

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Re: Aux Fed Subs
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2011, 08:14:23 am »

I think a few of you guys need to remember that an engineers experience can never be quantified by personal taste.

My reason for disliking aux-fed subs mainly comes down to work flow and how my brain and fingers navigate a console. 
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James Feenstra

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Re: Aux Fed Subs
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2011, 11:23:14 am »

I think a few of you guys need to remember that an engineers experience can never be quantified by personal taste.
so an engineer whose 'personal taste' is unaligned drivers, a smiley faced eq and faders all over the map can still be incredibly experienced?

maybe so, but they still don't know anything.
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Chris Davis

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Re: Aux Fed Subs
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2011, 01:15:07 pm »

I think a few of you guys need to remember that an engineers experience can never be quantified by personal taste.

My reason for disliking aux-fed subs mainly comes down to work flow and how my brain and fingers navigate a console.
Trying to run everything the same way can be a pain, especially if you don't have access to a VCA board in some cases.  But that aside, I don't find much difference in workflow between using an Aux Send or a Variable HPF.  It's just a different dial on the channel strip.  In that regard, I don't mind if the system is set up to be used one way or another.
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James Feenstra

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Re: Aux Fed Subs
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2011, 02:34:00 pm »

aux fed subs are not a substitute for a variable hpf...they do two completely different things

you're still going to want to roll off the bottom end of things like vocals and cymbals even with aux fed subs, as there's undesirable information above the sub cross over point in many cases.

if your subs are crossing higher than 100-120hz though, there's little to no point in having them aux fed because you'll be dialing a lot into them anyways

three way systems generally sound better (fuller? warmer? insert adjective here) full range as opposed to aux fed for that very reason. A larger system (4/5/6 way) will sound better with aux fed subs as you can drop your xover low enough for the subs to just see the information they should
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Mike Reilly

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Re: Aux Fed Subs
« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2011, 06:53:54 pm »

My reason for disliking aux-fed subs mainly comes down to work flow and how my brain and fingers navigate a console.

Meh.  Learning to use aux-fed subs hasn't felt like any more of a challenge to my brain-finger-work flow than, say, learning to use a desk with variable HPF, or with 2 sweepable mids, or 4 EFX, or a DDL with tap tempo, or . . . .   

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Geoff Doane

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Re: Aux Fed Subs
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2011, 09:15:10 pm »

The topic was discussed extensively, and not all that long ago, here:

http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/m/599965/0/?srch=aux+fed+subs#msg_599965

GTD
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John Neil

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Re: Aux Fed Subs
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2011, 09:17:17 pm »

It's mostly a reflection on some of the "systems in my life," but a channel strip HPF doesn't do exactly as advertised when paired with systems that display 6 db of rise in the octave below 400 Hz and another 9-12 db of haystacked subs after that.  Add to this the prox effect of a 58 and exactly how much LF rolloff does that HPF actually get you?

While a variable HPF on the channel sounds nice, I'm of the opinion that most of them are 12 db/oct at the most. As a system guy, I usually see band guys touring the club smile at a tuning loosely described above...genre dependent.  On this rig, a 12 db/oct HPF won't even flatten the response below 250. 

So what? Perhaps HPF and aux subs become the combination necessary to deal with extreme haystacking...all in the name of getting a kick drum cannon from a nearly flat eq on channel one.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2011, 09:24:43 pm by John Neil »
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Aux Fed Subs
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2011, 09:56:02 pm »

It's mostly a reflection on some of the "systems in my life," but a channel strip HPF doesn't do exactly as advertised when paired with systems that display 6 db of rise in the octave below 400 Hz and another 9-12 db of haystacked subs after that.  Add to this the prox effect of a 58 and exactly how much LF rolloff does that HPF actually get you?

While a variable HPF on the channel sounds nice, I'm of the opinion that most of them are 12 db/oct at the most. As a system guy, I usually see band guys touring the club smile at a tuning loosely described above...genre dependent.  On this rig, a 12 db/oct HPF won't even flatten the response below 250. 

So what? Perhaps HPF and aux subs become the combination necessary to deal with extreme haystacking...all in the name of getting a kick drum cannon from a nearly flat eq on channel one.

You are speaking the truth

Anyone who doesn't understand John's post needs to read it until the Lightbulb of Illuminati begins to glow over your head...
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"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

Chris Davis

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Re: Aux Fed Subs
« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2011, 11:09:23 pm »

As a system guy, I usually see band guys touring the club smile at a tuning loosely described above...genre dependent.  On this rig, a 12 db/oct HPF won't even flatten the response below 250. 

So what? Perhaps HPF and aux subs become the combination necessary to deal with extreme haystacking...all in the name of getting a kick drum cannon from a nearly flat eq on channel one.
Indeed.
P.S. As  a low-level trusty dusty mixer man, I would be one of the guys who doesn't have those requirements.  In my post I was thinking of some of the scenarios that we run into and I mix without incident.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2011, 11:15:56 pm by Chris Davis »
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Art Hays

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Re: Aux Fed Subs
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2011, 12:13:15 am »

I've been learning a lot via this thread and the previous one mentioned from the old forums.  Some questions:

1.) A post in the old forum mentioned a time alignment issue that might arise with AUX-fed subs.  I assume this is an alignment issue between the subs and the other drivers?  Does this arise because of differences in processing between the AUX feed and the mains (such as number of filters, how the AUX feed is dervied, etc)?  How is it quantified and corrected?

2.) If there is overlap in freq range between subs and tops I guess you have some leeway in setting the crossover point?  How would you choose the crossover point to be ideal for AUX-fed subs?

Thanks,
« Last Edit: April 12, 2011, 12:15:41 am by Art Hays »
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Aux Fed Subs
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2011, 12:13:15 am »


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